Grit and seediness at arm's length?

Lucas

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dsc said:
Where can one go in BsAs to see some gritty/seedy things but not put oneself in harm's way? ie.) perhaps riding on a bus or on a train?

I've done this a little bit in other Latin American cities like Montevideo and Panama City.

I'm talking purely in the daytime. Back at home even before dusk.

I'm not sure why, but I've always had this morbid fascination.

I guess it's the same kind of thing that makes one look when you drive by the scene of an accident..

Did you ever consider to go to see a shrink and have your brains functions observed and analysed?

Not doubt you have a serious problem, the sooner you recognize and face it the better it'll be for your mental health and soul.

A free honest and friendly advice before it's to late dsc....Get a Life!
 

fedecc

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You can join or help a charity that has comedores or guarderias in villas and poor neighborhoods. You get to see the real poverty without foolishly seeking out danger.
 

L_K_P

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syngirl said:
I don't blame her father at all. 3 weeks ago my husband and mother in law got guns pointed at their heads and chests by 3 guys who wanted everything they had -- including our beat up 10 year old Gol. They were in a nice area of town. They were happy to take a shitty car.

You're a very silly new arrival. If you want to do that sort of thing, go with someone who knows where they are going. Do not force your only Argentine friend to take her spanking new car into an area she doesn't know.

Silly tourists like you should be paying good money on tours through the villas. Or go on your own. Or go with your silly tourist friends. Don't force people to put their own property and potentially their lives on the line for YOUR shits and giggles.

Of course the large majority of people in the villas and the poorer areas of town are decent people. However, there are the minority that are willing to kill you for your silly iPod or whatever shiny 1st world objects you've go on you. If YOU want to go fine, but don't MAKE anyone else go with you.

You were obviously too much of a coward to go on your own -- so if you're scared to go on your own, why force a woman friend with a brand new car to go with you? You're an idiot.

So viscious!! Haha. Do you have any Argentinian friends? And if so, do you think I could 'force' one of them to do something? I asked maybe three times over two weeks, and she agreed. She planned out our trip and I knew nothing. If she drove me to some gated millionaires barrio I wouldn't have complained.

Your post must break all records for incorrect assumptions. Silly new arrival ? I have worked for longer in Argentina than you, in a company where I am dealing exclusively with Argentinos.

But even if i only arrived yesterday, and wanted to experience something different than being driven straight from the airport to Palermo, how does this make me an idiot?

I accept there are different people than me, and it doesn't bother me. Some people want Argentina to be exactly like the safe place they left. The world needs people like you or we aren't going to have working postal system, telephones, etc.

You call me an 'idiot' :eek: for wanting to see what Argentina is like outside of Palermo. What confuses me is how exactly this makes you better than me .. ?
 

L_K_P

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Another thing, I sympathise with your family because I have also been robbed with a gun to my head in Argentina, althought it was over a year ago now.

It made me even more curious to see what the 'real' Buenos Aires was like, because the guy who robbed me seemed like a nice person except for the fact he had a gun to my head. There was something so calm about him, that made calm also, and not at all like I would have expected.

After he robbed me I stood in the street for 20 seconds, wondering if it had really happened. Then the guy turned around, walked back to me, pointed the gun at me again and suggest I run.. I assume because he lived in the same street where he robbed me, and he didnt want me to see where he was going. So, all in all, I think i have as much or more experience, and as many or more real argentina friends, as you, and really doubt you are that much better than me that you can judge me.
 

emilyr

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Yes, PLEASE be careful where you go in cars...the news are FULL of horrible tragedies with Argentines who have been shot and killed or nearly killed in car robberies! A month ago ex soccer player Fernando Cáceres was shot in the eye but fortunately is recuperating slowly by miracle alone, according to an article today. If I have learned anything from watching the sensationalist television news, it's not to drive a nice car in Capital Federal! jaja...An Argentine man I know, regular tipo, was driving a gas delivery truck to a villa when he was held up by CHILDREN.

Without getting into the arguments here. I do think gating ourselves away from suffering and hunger is definitely psychologically damaging, which I don't think anyone is suggesting...

Here is a 100% safe way to learn about the lives of many people in Argentines. There is an amazing journalism program La Liga on Telefe that WAS on Tuesday nights at 22:30 until the last two weeks, but I think it's season may have ended. They sleep on the streets with the homeless people in Congreso, go into sweatshops or small sewing talleres that import Bolivian workers with false promises, interview vedettes, go out with prostitutes, enter homes of people who live in warehouses, tag along with street kids using paco, go on the tren del oeste as I've seen so far...and they put it in into a geographical context using slick maps of Capital Federal or the country depending on the topic, so you can ubicarse. It's a GREAT show! Well done, allowing people to tell their story, their thoughts, not vouyeristic. Capaz que all of us are not first language speakers of Spanish, and the great thing is often interviews where people speak unclearly and with background noise are subtitled in Spanish, though I don't know how well this will show up in the streams.

You can stream all the old episodes, though on, [FONT=&quot]www.mixplay.tv[/FONT], which I have to say sucks and can only be used with Internet Explorer. But you can also purchase episodes it seems through mixplay, though I have never tried this.
 

HotYogaTeacher

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Hmmm. My partner and I had this discussion when we were in New Orleans a couple of years ago. We decided against taking the "see the devastation of Katrina" tour bus through ruined neighborhoods and rented bikes to go on our own instead. We saw everything, close up, and frankly, the people of those neighborhoods, which we'd been warned were very dangerous, were warm, friendly, welcoming. They seemed to feel (I may be projecting here) that were part of their world, having got down off the air conditioned bus, and were a signal from the outside that life was returning. Two healthy people, lunches packed, riding through the neighborhood. Yes there was devastation and poverty, but there were also signs of life coming back. We ate ice cream bars from a truck with a tinkling bell on someones completely deserted front lawn. He must have been there to sell ice cream to someone, though we were the only ones around for blocks. I'm sure the $5 he charged us was a special price, just for us, but that's OK.

I think what I'm saying is that attitude is everything here. Yes, seeing close up the way real people live brings you into closer connection with the world, but really, if your only desire is just to see, you aren't changing or helping anything. Also, I support travelers in protecting themselves, and at the same time when you hold yourself too far apart you can't really learn and you can impact the people negatively by making them feel like a tourist attraction. That's ugly....
 

nikad

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Hey, is there any reason why the original thread starter changed his name?
 

citygirl

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L_K_P - If you're not a recent arrival, I wonder even more at your decision to ask your friend to go to a dangerous area. You must be aware of the thefts and robberies and assault that occur here. That's great that you want to get out of Palermo but I can think of a lot better ways to see the "real" Argentina than driving around a bad neighborhood.
I had a friend stabbed across the street form my apt on Libertador ( in front of the racetrack) during a mugging, I had a friend get her car stolen in front of my apt, I had another friend stabbed in San Isidro while they attempted to mug her. You don't have to go to "bad" neighborhoods to get an adrenaline rush. If that's what you're looking for, just buy a Rolex and walk around at night. ;)
And asking how does deliberately putting yourself in danger and driving through a bad neighborhood in a brand new car make you look foolish? Well, as my mother used to tell me when I was a wee young thing "If you go looking for trouble, don't bother crying when you find it. You will have gotten what you deserve." I think that's all people are trying to say. You and your friend are lucky to have gotten away with nothing more than an irate father. The alternatives could have been much, much worse.
 

Joe

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Constitution. I took a bus to meet someone near the Hospital Britanico and I saw street walkers in the middle of the day. I expect it would be more exciting at night.
 
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