Havana, Cuba

[la_guachita]

Given the recent and on-going dismal news, both here in Buenos Aires and other countries on this planet, I am rather alarmed and dismayed that some of the topics in this thread refer to prostitution as being a motivating factor for tourism to Cuba. One only needs to see what the Sex Trade led to in terms of exploitation of impoverished women & children in Thailand, the Philippines, Russia, and many, many other countries on this planet. Yes, even the United States. One's level of loneliness does not justify an immoral exploitation of impoverished people, whether they be male or female. Looking at human beings as a commodity to be purchased & exploited is wrong, very wrong.

Good on you Risu for bringing this up. I was thinking the same thing while reading this. Prostitution should be legal and employed w/ harm reduction methods as it is in Amsterdam and parts of Nevada, but reading about it in the context of a visiting an economically disadvantaged country and being able to get cheap sex from desperate women with few other options to feed their kids is a bajón.

I know there are a lot of men who come to BA as well for the easy access to pretty women they can pay to have sex, i just wonder how the johns (if they aren't elderly or handicap or something) reconcile doing so when it's clear the women are doing it because they have little choice.

 

[PaulBee]

Hahaha. There´s a spot near the Capitolio in Havana where there are always men arguing, loudly, looking like they´re going to start a fist fight - but they never do. That´s the place men go to discuss baseball.

But it's baseball that really counts. Even Che Guevara attempted to play.

 

[PaulBee]

I didn´t plan to steer the conversation in this direction, but since it´s gone there: from what I saw and heard, living with Cubans (and it´s a hard place to know the whole truth), Cuba could prosper even with the US embargo if it makes moves to do so. Of course, Cuba would be more prosperous without the embargo. Some Cubans would remain in Cuba even if they could leave, because it´s their home and they love Cuba. One notable case was Newfoundland born Mary McCarthy (you can see her on YouTube). Mrs. McCarthy married a wealty Cuban and lived there long before the revolution. She would not leave Cuba, even though it meant that she had to forgo her fortune in a US bank. Fidel blamed Mrs. McCarthy´s death, at age 109, on a lack of funds, caused by the US not letting Mrs. McCarthy have her own money.
I never asked people in Cuba about politics, but I doubt very much the majority in Havana like Fidel. Fidel helped the rest of Cuba, but let Havana deteriorate, so I expect he´s more popular in the interior. As for exploitation: I think the inefficient system causes the workers to be the most exploited. Remember, different people have different values, and many Cubans aren´t so traumatized by prostitution. When the economic crisis came in the early 90s, hotels were completely surrounded with woman available for $2 US. The government had to ship truck loads of youths to their home provinces, or hardly any young people would work at regular jobs. It´s not uncommon for prostitutes to take foreigners home for an encounter - after introducing them to the doting family. Wives will sometimes even be friendly with their husbands´ male clients, treating them as respected "uncles".

 

[Risu]

I love history, so with plans to visit Cuba someday, and to gain a historical perspective of Cuba's Revolution, I found reading "Fidel Speaks", a collection of speeches given by Fidel to the Cuban people from 1959 until 1968 very helpful. His speeches make clear why he is revered as " a teacher" and how for over 50+ years has rendered such loyalty from the Cuban people. One can only wonder what might have been for Cuba, if Cuba had not been subjected to the misguided foreign policies of the E.E.U.U.. I cannot help but think if Cuba had not experienced & suffered for decades the indignities of the U.S.economic embargo, ( one of the main reasons for the Cuban peoples level of poverty and despair), it would be a much different place today. I suggest anyone traveling to this beautiful island do so with some historical perspective & respect for the Cuban people.

Fidel Speaks, edited by Martin Kenner & James Petras, published by Grove Press, Inc., New York

 

[Risu]

A very interesting article on Prostitution & Sex Tourism in Cuba by Charles Trumbull. Suggested reading to all but particularly to those who feel the Cuban people "aren´t so traumatized by prostitution".

http://www.estig.ipb...o/trumbull2.pdf

 

[robwerwe]

The same can be said about Buenos Aires, but most people never venture outside of the tourist areas.

There are actually some nice places outside of Havana, try Vinales.

This would be like walking off Santa Fe and seeing this.
Plus it was a lot more extreme. Excluding the villas here the rest if BA isn't quite as fcked as Havana, although some parts arn't far off I admit.

 

[PaulBee]

I love history, so with plans to visit Cuba someday, and to gain a historical perspective of Cuba's Revolution, I found reading "Fidel Speaks", a collection of speeches given by Fidel to the Cuban people from 1959 until 1968 very helpful. His speeches make clear why he is revered as " a teacher" and how for over 50+ years has rendered such loyalty from the Cuban people. One can only wonder what might have been for Cuba, if Cuba had not been subjected to the misguided foreign policies of the E.E.U.U.. I cannot help but think if Cuba had not experienced & suffered for decades the indignities of the U.S.economic embargo, ( one of the main reasons for the Cuban peoples level of poverty and despair), it would be a much different place today. I suggest anyone traveling to this beautiful island do so with some historical perspective & respect for the Cuban people.

Fidel Speaks, edited by Martin Kenner & James Petras, published by Grove Press, Inc., New York

There´s a saying in Cuba: What comes after Fidel´s Saturday evening speech ? Sunday morning. He gave long
speeches while he was well. While I didn´t get the impression that most people would vote for Fidel, I found it ironic that
he was widely respected.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Havana is truly an unforgettable place. in 1985 It was declared a World Heritage site by UNESCO. It was once known as the Paris of the Caribeean. Like BA was once known as the Paris of the Americas. Columbus walked it's streets before there were streets there. He was buried there for a long time before they moved him back to the old sod. He was the first tourist. There's a place near the Colon cemetery that always reminded me of BA. Perhaps because of the little square with the Merry go round in it. One late night (through my own stupidity) I got myself locked out of my room. I spent the rest of the evening bar crawling 'till daybreak. My favorite places are The Malecon. (I once walked the full length roundtrip) The Prado, a tree line promenade that goes from the Capitolio building right down to the sea. And the old Chinatown. It dates back to the 19th Century. There's no place like it. Cuba is probably the only country in the world that doesn't have a single McDonald's, Burger King, Starbucks, Subway, Walmart, American Express office. It's because of the trade embargo. It's like being in a time warp.
[font="'Helvetica Neue"]If you go or have gone there you have to read George Orwell's 1984. He must have seen it coming from his years living in Spain. It's something like what Cuba is today, right dow to the double speak. and that Big Brother watching you. [/font]

 

[PaulBee]

Thanks for the interesting article, Risu. Unfortunately, I don´t think the author knew Cuba very well, judging by some things he said. I was there at the time the article was written, back when US$ were accepted. I lived with all types of Cubans. After my lengthy stays over the years, I don´t have the impression that most Cubans are traumatized by prostitution. People in Havana at least, find foreigners to be conservative. I was asked whether it was true that in Canada it´s illegal to talk to young people.
As for exploitation, I found the group of Swedish women who wanted to be sex tourists - but not pay - were the ones who wanted to exploit. Some people treat Cuban prositutes very well - and some Cuban prostitutes are experts are exploiting their clients for all they can cajole, scare or steal from them.

A very interesting article on Prostitution & Sex Tourism in Cuba by Charles Trumbull. Suggested reading to all but particularly to those who feel the Cuban people "aren´t so traumatized by prostitution".

http://www.estig.ipb...o/trumbull2.pdf

 

[PhilipDT]

I know there are a lot of men who come to BA as well for the easy access to pretty women they can pay to have sex, i just wonder how the johns (if they aren't elderly or handicap or something) reconcile doing so when it's clear the women are doing it because they have little choice.

Probably the same way Nike reconciles paying $5 dollars a day for someone to sew t shirts in Bangladesh. Or the way a lot of us here in Argentina reconcile paying $3 dollars an hour to women without other options to clean our houses.

I'm curious though, why did you exclude the elderly and handicapped from your judgment?