Heating Not Working - Should I Pay Rent In Full?

[Meri]

I wonder what the contract provisions are for recovering costs through withholding money from the rent, based on receipts for money spent (and obviously based on having sent notice, etc)? I believe there is something related to this in the "national" contract, and a section of a contract that attempts to override the "national" contract (standard contract by law? Whatever it's called) is null and can't be enforced. I'm too lazy to go find my contract right now to verify, but I believe that the standard contract has provisions for this type of situation. I'm pretty sure that the notice (and penalty payments) required to vacate, for example, is waived by law if the owner does not maintain certain things that are his responsibility, rendering the apartment unlivable.

One question - are your hot water pipes for kitchen/bathrooms functioning? I have a friend whose building got cut off by the gas company, related to the new restrictions because of what happened in Rosario (I think that's where it was?) and he has been without hot water and heat for three months now. He made a deal with the landlord to keep the lease in place but is only paying the building expenses and living in a temporary place in the meantime.

If space heating is the only unlivable issue you have, it can be resolved, but hot running water is a necessity in winter - at least in modern times, in a modern city.

I love the apartment I'm in right now. Having lived here for 8 years and knowing how hard it can be to find just the right place at the right money (my biggest thing is the size-to-price ratio - we now have five of us and I work at home!), I'd deal with a certain amount of little things to keep this place.

In fact, I have. Things like the shower glass (not a shower door, but one of those half-length glass "walls" that hinges) in my master bathroom about to fall off at the top - the owners had it "reattached" before we moved in (apparently it had fallen off at some point) and the top hinge is coming unbolted (the anchor bolt is pulling out of the wall), since we first moved in. I've asked them to fix it a number of times. We've been here three months now and they still haven't managed to get anyone out to even look at it. They're the nicest of ladies (sisters) but they don't get very much done. I'm calling someone out next week and footing the bill myself and will talk to them about reimbursing me through withholding some of the rent money, even over some months if needed (maybe the sisters don't have a lot of money for repairs on the apartment - their responsibility but my problem).

To top it off, our building heater is too hot for me and I have no way of controlling it (doesn't heat the floors, but there's some kind of radiator behind a grill that is fed by hot water pipes in the walls) except opening a window somewhat to try to counteract the heat. I'm sure a problem you would prefer to have, but personally I played ice hockey for 17 years and I guess I prefer cold to hot any day

We have a number of little things like that, which were supposed to be taken care of before we moved in but were either done in a half-assed manner and have become issues again, or were not taken care of. But it's 170 sq meters for $1000 USD a month, with three bedrooms, an office, and a large living and dining room. Very pleasing aesthetically. And in Recoleta - except for two years in Garin, near Pilar, I've lived in Recoleta my whole time here and that's where the majority of my friends live. It's a beautiful apartment and I figure I have to do what I have to do to live in it and try to get re-compensated afterwards.

With two year leases, moving can be expensive (relatively, for here - much cheaper than in the States, to be sure) and a pain-in-the-ass. I fill my 170 sq meters completely with furniture I've bought over the years. Finding the near-perfect place where you want to be, at the right price, can be very time consuming.

I don't move lightly.

One thing I've learned here is that it is what it is. It can be very difficult to stand on your rights and depend completely on that to make things right in any kind of timely manner. Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do to be happy.

I'd buy some heaters if the landlord isn't responsive to do so, before you freeze. Remember, even if you move, I doubt you'd be able to just find a new place and get into it overnight, unless you are talking a temporary rental to move into immediately - and the move is likely to be more expensive than the heaters - and in a couple of months winter will be over until next year...

I'd discuss withholding money from the rent after having officially notified the owner of your complaint. I believe you have the right expectations about the probability of the pipe situation getting worked out in two weeks, and finished within a couple of days of work starting, but I've been pleasantly surprised here as well and you never know. If you end up with some heaters that you don't need, they're not outrageously expensive and you can probably find someone to buy them come next winter.

You are on a guarentia/2 year unfurnished rental? Just asking because I'm paying 1100 USD/month for a furnished tourist rental -a PH - 90 sq meters in Palermo Hollywood. Trying to figure out what the current rental market is and if it's worth trying to move into a non-tourist situation or not. It's such a pain to move and to have to furnish an entire place just may not be worth it at the end of the day- even though I have a lot of kitchen supplies, some living room chairs, TV.

 

[Rich One]

A couple of caloventores for $200 each should solve the problem for the time being, before the system is repaired. Move the units with you at all times-

http://listado.merca...ar/caloventores

 

[Ceviche]

You are on a guarentia/2 year unfurnished rental? Just asking because I'm paying 1100 USD/month for a furnished tourist rental -a PH - 90 sq meters in Palermo Hollywood. Trying to figure out what the current rental market is and if it's worth trying to move into a non-tourist situation or not. It's such a pain to move and to have to furnish an entire place just may not be worth it at the end of the day- even though I have a lot of kitchen supplies, some living room chairs, TV.

I personally continue to live in a tourity fully furnished apartment despite being here for 6 years and being a citizen. love my landlord. dont wanna bother into getting to pay bills, and buy furniture etc. and look for guarantia etc

 

[Meri]

I personally continue to live in a tourity fully furnished apartment despite being here for 6 years and being a citizen. love my landlord. dont wanna bother into getting to pay bills, and buy furniture etc. and look for guarantia etc

Yes, Kind of thinking the same….

 

[Ceviche]

Yes, Kind of thinking the same….

my friends here think, i am throwing my money by doing this. But their is no financial value for *peace of mind*

 

[ElQueso]

You are on a guarentia/2 year unfurnished rental? Just asking because I'm paying 1100 USD/month for a furnished tourist rental -a PH - 90 sq meters in Palermo Hollywood. Trying to figure out what the current rental market is and if it's worth trying to move into a non-tourist situation or not. It's such a pain to move and to have to furnish an entire place just may not be worth it at the end of the day- even though I have a lot of kitchen supplies, some living room chairs, TV.

Yeah, I have a garantia for a two year lease. In fact, the biggest pain in the ass of moving into a two year contract is the garantia itself. You have to evaluate your needs and think about whether or not it's worth it.

I understand Ceviche completely. I don't remember if he said he was single or not before, but if he is, I understand completely the desire to stay in a tourist rental. Even with just a partner would make sense to me as well, although when we start talking kids (my situation, we now have three living with us) the need for space makes renting temporary more unlikely. The bigger a temporary apartment, the more expensive the rent (almost seems to be scaled logarithmically! Although as well, the more likely that apartment would be available for longer temporary rental as well), over and above what the price would be for a 2 year contract.

I had lived here for about a year and a half, and one of the expats I had made friends with had rented an apartment on a two year contract by paying the entire lease up front (he didn't have a garantia). He was called back to the States by his job before his lease ended and I was lucky enough to pick up his apartment and pay him the rent (the owner allowed us to sublet, which I found out later through experience was a minor miracle in and of itself). I had the place for a year. I realized that I didn't ever want to go back to temporary apartments. At that time, it was just my wife and I, but I had bought a small desk (hard to do serious work at home for a long time set up on the kitchen table) and was having to move that with me as well, every temporary lease-end.

In those days (2007), tourist rentals were a lot harder to come by on any kind of long term basis and I hadn't made many local contacts yet. I must have moved 11 times that first year and a half - I remember the longest rental contract I could get at the time was three months and I felt like I was in heaven on that one, not having to pack up my clothes the next month when someone else was slated to occupy the apartment I was in. Temporary leases were mostly full a good year in advance, at least in the class of apartment I wanted.

The market's changed quite a bit. Not nearly as many tourists as there were - I'm not looking at government figures, but I know two different guys who run temporary rental management businesses and although they are keeping busy enough, it's nothing like before. As a result, I think it's easier now to get a longer term temporary rental. But as you are experiencing, the prices are significantly different, which was another reason I wanted to move.

I was bitching a little about moving costs and all, but that's a relatively minor thing. Mostly I was just mentioning it because the OP who was looking for advice about the lease needed to think about that if they were going to vacate their current apartment for lack of heating. My last move, about 5 blocks, cost me on the order of $500 USD (not counting the new deposits for the new apartment, just the moving costs). Truly, the movers moved us in one day, did a helluva job (anyone want references, these guys are great) and I was very pleased.

But the garantia is the pain for me. I don't own property here and no one in our family does either. However, we've made enough contacts over the years that we have a friend whose parents sold us their garantia. It was even from Mar del Plata, which is not very usual that an owner will except something outside of Cap Fed as garantia for a Cap Fed apartment. Buying the garantia cost one month's rent.

Furniture can be very expensive here for anything that is really worthwhile. I got lucky - that first guy whose lease I picked up also sold me his furniture at a huge discount. I had made a good start with that. Over the years as I've lived and moved and increased my immediate family, I've accumulated things.

You just have to figure out if you want to go to that length or not. Personally, I had no real choice and am quite happy. I have no plans to leave Buenos Aires any time in the immediate or medium-range future. Even considering getting citizenship.

BTW, a little comment about temporary leases. The rental laws here are quite specific and are extremely beneficial to the renter in many ways (mostly having to do with occupying the property). A temporary rental doesn't have nearly the renter's rights that a 2 year contract has, which is why there two different contracts. With temporary contracts it's a lot easier to get the tenant out if they are not paying rent (although there are extenuating circumstances when kids are involved, for example). With a 2 year lease it's almost impossible to get renters out if they are not paying rent, for at least two years or more of court action. That's why the garantia is needed - the idea is to give the renter enough of a motivation to pay and/or move out (particularly at the end of a lease) or the owner of the apartment that was put up for garantia stands to lose his/her apartment.

But what many people, owners included, don't understand is that by law there is a limit on how long a temporary contract is valid. The maximum temporary rental contract is 6 months, and I believe it may be allowed to renew one time for another 6 months (can't remember where the actual limit is). But once you pass that limit, whether or not you have a temporary contract, the contract itself reverts to the standard long term 2 year lease. I mention that because this is another thing that often prevents owners who understand the law from renting temporary for more than 6 months. Some think just renewing the contract every 6 months keeps them safe, but it ain't so.

 

[Ceviche]

But what many people, owners included, don't understand is that by law there is a limit on how long a temporary contract is valid. The maximum temporary rental contract is 6 months, and I believe it may be allowed to renew one time for another 6 months (can't remember where the actual limit is). But once you pass that limit, whether or not you have a temporary contract, the contract itself reverts to the standard long term 2 year lease. I mention that because this is another thing that often prevents owners who understand the law from renting temporary for more than 6 months. Some think just renewing the contract every 6 months keeps them safe, but it ain't so.

I am living with no contract with the landlord for past 3 years or so. we have no agreements, deadlines, paper work nuthing. of course, I have stayed in the same place for about 6 years now! Friends tell me to go to a 2 year conventional rental and save money. I tell them "f.off, their is no price for peace of mind". the best part of the situation, is that it would just take me about a day or two to pack my things and move to another country if the situation ever comes to it. no obligations, no furniture, no contracts, no hard feelings, no pending bills.

 

[citygirl]

When I rented and did the math, there was no huge benefit to getting a long-term unfurnished rental, esp when you factored in the headache factor. By the time I would have furnished the apt with anything of reasonably decent quality, it would have nullified any of the rent savings and then some. Yes, I could have sold the furniture/appliances/etc later but there you had the huge headache factor. I was very happy in my furnished rentals and never had any problem finding "long-term" ones. My last apt, that I loved so much, I was in for a little under 2 years.

To the OP - welcome to Argentina. Gas cuts are sadly not uncommon AT ALL and there unfortunately is very little your landlord can do in most cases. I would buy a portable heating unit (or 2) and see if you can talk to owner to deduct a portion at least of the cost in your august rent.

 

[French jurist]

I also have no contract anymore with my LL (but in fact legally, there's a contract even if not written that neither of use would enforce).

Met them because I was buying dog food from the lady. One day, knowing I wanted to leave the ugly house I was renting in 2009, she told me they were leaving for Rio Negro and they would rent me their house.
We concluded a first contract (paid six months in advance if I recall) and after two years, they were too busy in Patagonia to even come here (+ I always pay on time).

Rental started in March 2010 for 3.000 pesos, quite cheap = 2.400 square meters of garden with old trees, big pool, private paddle court (my dogs never wanted to learn so useless). The house in itself sucks big time, is really badly built (eletrical + water outlets are side by side in one of the bathroom... surreee).

Rent remained 3.000 pesos in 2012/2013 and last year they told me the rent price was not really reflecting the real estate pricing so I offered to pay 5.000 pesos monthly (still paying that), but I also made many fixings in the house as a reward (varnish again the wood, fixed plumbing which is still an issue, etc. = 20.000 pesos in total as a reward).

They want to sell the house so I said no problem to let prospective buyers visit it. If there's a buyer, I'm just asking to have a 3 months delay to move (except during december-march since it would be tricky to find a new house).

Perfect relation, troublefree. I'll even leave the security deposit to them as a token of appreciation (they don't know that yet) so I don't even have to get stressed about that.

Once, they asked me again if I could pay 2 or 3 months in advance since they needed money = money was deposited the next day.

I'll move for sure next year though (not sure where yet, I want to see either a big lake, a mountain or any nice setting while working).

 

[Hybrid Ambassador]

I also have no contract anymore with my LL (but in fact legally, there's a contract even if not written that neither of use would enforce).

Met them because I was buying dog food from the lady. One day, knowing I wanted to leave the ugly house I was renting in 2009, she told me they were leaving for Rio Negro and they would rent me their house.
We concluded a first contract (paid six months in advance if I recall) and after two years, they were too busy in Patagonia to even come here (+ I always pay on time).

Rental started in March 2010 for 3.000 pesos, quite cheap = 2.400 square meters of garden with old trees, big pool, private paddle court (my dogs never wanted to learn so useless). The house in itself sucks big time, is really badly built (eletrical + water outlets are side by side in one of the bathroom... surreee).

Rent remained 3.000 pesos in 2012/2013 and last year they told me the rent price was not really reflecting the real estate pricing so I offered to pay 5.000 pesos monthly (still paying that), but I also made many fixings in the house as a reward (varnish again the wood, fixed plumbing which is still an issue, etc. = 20.000 pesos in total as a reward).

They want to sell the house so I said no problem to let prospective buyers visit it. If there's a buyer, I'm just asking to have a 3 months delay to move (except during december-march since it would be tricky to find a new house).

Perfect relation, troublefree. I'll even leave the security deposit to them as a token of appreciation (they don't know that yet) so I don't even have to get stressed about that.

Once, they asked me again if I could pay 2 or 3 months in advance since they needed money = money was deposited the next day.

I'll move for sure next year though (not sure where yet, I want to see either a big lake, a mountain or any nice setting while working).

frenchie-san, can you do carpentry-building a house? If so, you may wanting to help me build the house some where there in the "campo" and if you liking you can stay in the house as guest..!..Just saying. nothing concrete yet! But surely will be callin' on you and steveinbsas for consultation to my possibly moving there.!