Hey Paul NL: talking about violent societies

Granadaiscool

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Pedro was talking about decensy not about censorship. And you clearly lack a lot in the first department.
I for one think South Coreans are extremely violent. They killed 32 innocent bystanders in a shoot-out in Virginia
 

bf4

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and you are anything but cool:), your comment is biased and completely discriminatory
Please give us a break, now it's all about south koreans

Were these kids southkoreans as well? And I'm only pasting the most well known and public incidents.
1) March 24 1998 Jenestoro Arkansas
Two kids aged 11 and 13 shoot their classmates killing 4 students and one teacher.
2) April 20th 1999, Columbine Colorado
Two students aged 17 and 18 kill 13 people at Columbine School before committing suicide
3) January 17th.2002, Grundy Virginia
A law student who had been expelled kills three people in a shooting
4) October 29, 2002, Tucson Arizona
Three people die as a result of a shooting at Tucson Arizona caused by a student who had been prevented from taking an exam.
5) March 21,2005 Minnesota, Red Lake
A 17th. year old student kills his grandparents and attacks his school. As a result before committing suicide he shoots 5 classmates and one adult.
6) September 27th. 2006 Bailey Colorado
A man takes 5 girls as hostages at a school in Baley, rapes one of them, kills a second and commits suicide
7) October 2 2006, Pennsylvania
A man opens fire at an amish community shool killing five girls and shooting himself after
Is it so hard to admit that in a violent society the right to carry guns should be forbidden? Mr. Bush not once addresses the issue during his speech at Virginia tech. As usual he recommends prayers for the dead in his typical mesianic style (God bless America is what he repeats more often since Sept.11th.)
 

perry

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Every society is violent unfortunately. I am saddened by the waste of young lives like most of us here .Our prayers and condolences for all victims of crime and wars caused by human greed
 

sergio

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I agree with Pericles that the victims of crimes deserve our prayers. Those who commit crimes need our prayers as well. As for wars, they can be caused by greed but greed is not the only factor. Selfishness is behind most of the problems in the world - greed, of course, can be a component of selfishness. Religious and ethnic differences can cause war. A lot of factors can be involved. Some wars, though, are justified. Certainly the fight against Nazism was justified and can be considered a righteous war. War in self defense is also justifiable. The subject of what causes violence, in the US and elsewhere, is a valid topic of disussion and I hope we will continue to explore it here. I confess that I am not really clear as to the cause of the sort of extreme violence that occurred in Virginia. A school kid murdered a classmate in Missiones this week. What caused this? Did this sort of thing happen some years ago in Argentina? Why is it happening now? Why have Columbine and other mass killings been happenng in the US? Is extreme violence in films a factor? I don't have the answers....Maybe others have.
 

Mitscherman

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"bf4" said:
It is obvious to all of us that the cause is mental illness, my question is why the US society has had so many episodes of this kind........and so far nobody has answered
I think the reason so many horrific crimes occur in the United States is because we press to much. Have yet to learn how to sit back, relax, chill out! Both parents work, children raised by someone other than family. Produce, produce, produce... And when you are 17, out the door. Get a job and survive on your own. There is very little 'apollo de la familia' accept in very rich families. We are programed to be perfect in every detail of our lives and have a zero defect mentality. With that kind of pressure, no wonder people snap, crackle, and pop!
 

MikeBA

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"Mitscherman" said:
It is obvious to all of us that the cause is mental illness, my question is why the US society has had so many episodes of this kind........and so far nobody has answered I think the reason so many horrific crimes occur in the United States is because we press to much. Have yet to learn how to sit back, relax, chill out! Both parents work, children raised by someone other than family. Produce, produce, produce... And when you are 17, out the door. Get a job and survive on your own. There is very little 'apollo de la familia' accept in very rich families. We are programed to be perfect in every detail of our lives and have a zero defect mentality. With that kind of pressure, no wonder people snap, crackle, and pop!
Thats a good point right there argentinean families don't push their children and give them everything they want so why do they need to go rob someone? They can make their parents give it to them, there are to many cases of 30 year old argenineans living with their parents. Also bf4 who are you to judge? Every country has violence and you just happened to pick a country that;s pretty big meaning that in the long run the percentage is extremely low when you look at how many people are in the country and how many acts of violence occur. Second I realize that maybe you were set off by someone else but this really isn't the right way to handle the situation. Everyone on this forum needs to calm down and not freak out at everyones comments which could have been said in a joking manner but you wouldn't know because your not sitting in front of them. So think before posting.
 

Mitscherman

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"MikeBA" said:
Thats a good point right there argentinean families don't push their children and give them everything they want so why do they need to go rob someone? They can make their parents give it to them, there are to many cases of 30 year old argenineans living with their parents. Also bf4 who are you to judge? Every country has violence and you just happened to pick a country that;s pretty big meaning that in the long run the percentage is extremely low when you look at how many people are in the country and how many acts of violence occur. Second I realize that maybe you were set off by someone else but this really isn't the right way to handle the situation. Everyone on this forum needs to calm down and not freak out at everyones comments which could have been said in a joking manner but you wouldn't know because your not sitting in front of them. So think before posting.
Apples and Oranges. The question was why we have so much violent crime in the USA not why there is so much petty theft in Argentina. Unlike the USA, family is an integrated part of the social fabric here. The petty theft is a way to make a living for those who are living in poverty. As the economy improves, petty theft declines. In the USA, children from middle to upper class families snap and kill classmates as well as teachers and even their own family. How often does that occur here? When was the last time a tourist or expat was found murdered in the back streets of Buenos Aires? What about serial killers or pedophiles? Don't seem to hear or read much in the news about these two crimes but they are daily events in the USA.When was the last time you heard of a teacher in Argentina leaving her husband for an affair with her seventh grade student? My point... the USA may be the land of plenty but we have our own social problems, distinct and different from Argentina. It is not fair to compare the two.
 

Mitscherman

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Summary findings: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cvictgen.htm

  • In 2005, U.S. residents age 12 or older experienced approximately
    23 million crimes, according to findings from the National Crime Victimization
    Survey.
    -- 77% (18.0 million) were property crimes

    -- 22% (5.2 million) were crimes of violence

    -- 1% (227,000) were personal thefts.



  • In 2005 for every 1,000 persons age 12 or older, there occurred


    --1 rape or sexual assault --1 assault with injury --3 robberies
  • Murders were the least frequent violent victimization -- about 6 murder
    victims per 100,000 persons in 2005.
* I challenge anyone to find crime statistics for Argentina and post. Let the numbers speak for themselves.
 

sergio

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I think the US crime statistics need to be broken down by neighborhoods. I suspect that a large postion of the crime occurs in "inner city" areas, whereas there is far far less crime in middle and upper class areas. There is a lot of crime in Buenos Aires in the best parts of town - certainly a lot of break ins and robberies.
 

bigbadwolf

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"sergio" said:
I think the US crime statistics need to be broken down by neighborhoods. I suspect that a large postion of the crime occurs in "inner city" areas, whereas there is far far less crime in middle and upper class areas.
If one restricts oneself to examining ethnicities, people of European descent in the US are committing violent crimes at the level of people in Western Europe. East Asians are committing even fewer violent crimes than whites. Unfortunately a candid discussion of these issues is scarcely possible these days without the thought police pouncing on one.
 
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