Homes In Argentina

[gpop]

I recently came across a construction company on FB that caught my attention for services they provide in construction of wood frame homes. That and the Sipanel materials were very interesting to me as I'm considering a move and construction of a new home. Unfortunately, these guys are in Neuquén. Bummer.

The FB comments got me a little hot under the collar for the amount of ignorance many people displayed towards anything that is not traditional Argentine construction.

Hmmm. The #1 issue everybody has when buying a home is the humidity, but there is little to nothing to control it besides paint.

So, I wanted to poll the expat AND Argentine readers about their views on the matter, and discuss the rational behind the perceived benefits/pittfalls of one construction method or another.

 

[mulderfox]

you should add noise level as a concern

 

[gpop]

you should add noise level as a concern

Thanks, that's a good one, although, I did leave a "other" option for anything that I may have forgotten.
And, actually one of my #1 reasons to leave BA... too noisy.

 

[ElQueso]

As long as the wood is treated and there's a moisture barrier I don't think humidity would be a problem. I owned two wood frame houses at different times in Houston. One was a single story tract house built in 1989, the other a two story built in 1972, and the only problem the latter had was the foundation (Houston was a swamp and there's pretty much no bedrock - common problem in Houston). Houston is a semi-tropical climate; as anyone who has ever spent much time there (usually no more than an hour or so is needed) knows it's hotter and more humid than Buenos Aires and it even gets a little colder in the winters than here. The house weathered fine.

I don't know that energy efficiency would be an issue in Houston building a wood frame house, because I know code and construction methods nowadays are much better than when my house was built and it wasn't bad as it was with very little done to upgrade it efficiency-wise. However, I don't know what the building practices are like here and even less about the building codes, particularly related to wood frame instead of brick/concrete construction they do here. That might be your biggest problem is relatively substandard materials and practices.

I've seen some companies offer prefabricated housing here. The houses look nice, but I don't remember the material they were using. I do remember having the feeling "mobile home construction" when I saw the ads. Never looked into it too much.

As far as noise levels, I don't know that bricks/concrete versus wood with a wood or brick veneer make much difference as far as suppression.

In my apartment, I'm buried between floors on the top and bottom, and the two ends of my apartment (front and back) face a street and an open center of block, from which both sides noises enter fairly freely in those immediate rooms. My office is next to a pulmon shared by three other buildings and I hear everything going on around me.

My house in Houston was quiet because I lived in a quiet, peaceful, suburban neighborhood (open, not walled! With Constables patrolling day and night, a car every once in awhile, paid by my local tax money! I have so much less problems with local taxes!!!!). We often would leave our doors unlocked to go to the pool and such.

The house I rented for a couple of years in Garin (Pan Americana route 9, between Tortuguitas and Pilar). It was a quiet, peaceful, suburban neighborhood (though 50 lots, pretty small for out there - walled and with guards at the single entrance). The house was the usual brick/concrete construction - with a cistern (as we found out, often very necessary out there) over the kitchen.

I had peace and quiet in both houses. But I could hear cars passing by (slowly) in both, I could hear kids laughing in both (although only occasionally here), I could hear lawn mowers running in both. Nice, mostly peaceful suburban sounds.

Aside from the three vacation rentals near our house, felt very much like living in a normal neighborhood, except the people weren't very friendly (really snobbish and worse in their attitudes - may be because they were wealthy people in that neighborhood, people all around outside our neighborhood were quite friendly) and I had to go through a guardhouse every time I left or entered. Also, there was a small villa (slum) that nearly butted up to the "back" wall, opposite the front guard entrance. We had one or two break-ins, usually from that wall, per month but while we lived there no one got robbed. Other neighborhoods are bigger, sometimes with more entrances, and can be targets for robbers who either bribe the guards or tie them up, come in with a truck and carry away some stuff and flee down the highway - happened twice in the two years we were living out there to neighborhoods in the area.

I would definitely worry about flooding! But you should be able to find a place that doesn't flood often. We never had problems in our neighborhood when other parts of Buenos Aires were flooding.

I have thought about this myself. The city drives me nuts - too much noise, too many people, not enough grass and trees without having to make a special trip for it. Black particles that coat my balcony and some of which makes it into the apartment - and my nose (I smoke, so I can't say much about my lungs). I've always been a suburbanite and while I like the convenience (sometimes) of living in the city, I prefer suburban living.

I would probably build using local construction techniques, but would think seriously about how some of it was done. For example, why not use the brick/concrete methods here for the outside walls, the columns, the floors but use studs (metal or wood - metal might be better and cheaper) with sheet rock for interior walls? The house I rented and others I've been in (looked at maybe 30-40 houses over three months before I rented the one I chose) have all been local construction, and all interior walls are bricked. Unless you find someone who's good at wood frame construction here, which there aren't many it seems, you're going to end up having issues I'd think. Go with what they know how to do best, but make some modifications.

Some notes on where to live, maybe - I don't think I'll ever live in a closed neighborhood again. I didn't like the vacation rentals nearby (couple of times we had some loud partiers across the street), there were a lot of absentee owners, the expenses were heavy (and about half the owners didn't pay - some were over 100,000 pesos in backs dues!). It might be good for some though - it wasn't hell, that's for sure.

I like the idea of finding a little bit of space (I don't need much - but not a little lot) on a paved road near a little town where there aren't any (or not too many) villa-type dwellings clustered. Not far off the highway. There was a really nice middle class neighborhood, close to my closed neighborhood, that was all open, various sized houses, some with walls, some not. Felt like a safe place overall. I'd do something like that.

You might want to think about having a car, too - there are many buses out there, and many ways to get around, but going to the grocery store isn't as easy as here and depending on where you are, there is distance between everything.

Sorry if I was telling you things you already, knew, but just in case

 

[gpop]

My motivation for polling is to get an idea of opinions based from Argentines; who are the majority, and what they consider important when buying. Also Expats who have varied exposure to homes made of materials that are not mainstream here in Argentina, and now that those expats that have seen construction here; how they gauge the differences. Have opinions changed? Are Argentine opinions changing?

EDIT: a "for instance": if I build a traditional Argie house. I will probably get a faster resale if I ever wanted to sell it; but would energy cost be higher due to traditional avoidance of insulation and double paned glass? Is such a ridged structure apt for the change in the climate and ground ? These are the questions I am thinking of.

 

[Jaredberryman]

I personally would be nervous about a wood frame because my question would be if it is actually treated correctly here in this country (where often things are not done right). Another option are steel profiles instead of of the wood frame, and that will basically solve the humidity issue. Many people that have built houses like it in Nordelta and other places like that use the steel profiles. There is not such a big difference on price, so I think it is worth considering. Traditional argentine construction will last a long time as far as the walls go, but it's not necessarily so superior as Argentines seem to think. Do you really need your house to last 100 years anyways? As far as the noise goes, if you have a stand alone house, and you have insulation, then who cares. Most of the brick homes built now have ladrillo hueco, so they have noise problems as well.

 

[nikad]

My replies: Argentine, Hybrid, Resale Value and Security. Years ago I was very reluctant to accept that construction methods other than brick and mortar were any good. After visiting many places in the US, I came to the conclusion that a fast, efficient and more affordable construction if done right is as good as brick and mortar if not better - for repairs, etc -. This being said, I know most people here think they are cardboard, prefabricadas villa like houses and that would affect the resale value. Also, so many things are not done right, that security about materials - ie they are using what they say they are using - is a major concern.

 

[steveinbsas]

My house is constructed of bricks (the large ones). It is not well insulated, but in the winter I only have to heat one room during the day and I use an electric mattress warmer, making heating of my bedroom only necessary for about an hour or two at night for about two months of the year. I only have air conditioning in the master bedroom and use it less than ten times a year. Pedestal fans are enough to keep me cool when I'm inside during the summer, including when I'm sleeping.

My electric bill has fluctuated between $10-$15 US dollars per month durin the four years I have lived here and I am now paying about $450 USD per year for LP gas.

I can hear cars and trucks that drive past my house while I am inside, but there are so few that they never bother me. My neighbors are far enough from my house that I can barely hear their dogs or roosters when I am outside.

There has been a lot of rain this winter and the water table is high enough that now, after a heavy rain, there is standing water in the land next to my house, but that land is at least a meter lower than the land on which my house was built.

I would not recommend that anyone build a house of any material other than bricks or logs (solid).

"El Rancho Escondido"

 

[nikad]

Do you really need your house to last 100 years anyways?

I agree with most of your points, however considering the non existent credit and that most people inherit properties, yes, you want a house to last long enough just so at least you and your children when they grow older can live there.

 

[irina]

My husband is a local Architect and we've discussed the bricks/concrete vs estructura liviana/wood debate before.
He said historically when people first begun building wooden structures here, that the builders would lie about the insulation to get people to buy. Then of course poor insulation led to high heat/air conditioning, noise issues, etc. Because of this no one (few people) trust wood structures here. But he says if built properly and insulated properly there are zero issues. Which to me would go without saying because I've never seen a home built out of anything else but wood in my neck of the woods (pun intended). But if you're concerned about retail maybe it would be difficult to convince locals later on that it's a perfect structure?