How many of you want to leave Bs As?
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steveinbsas
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First this:
Followed by:
Then this:
Followed by this:
Your post above is #39 in this thread. Perhaps you missed post #16:
Though Mitch did not use the word moral , terms like lie, cheat, and inherently corrupt certainly apply to morality. I would have used the word integrity instead of dignity, otherwise I agree with what Mitch wrote, adding that of course this does not apply to every single Argentine.
Nonetheless, the third person I spoke to after entering Argentina for the first time extorted me for $100U$D. In the past five years I have been surprised several times by Argentines I thought I could trust who lied to and/or actually cheated me. Several other laughed as they told me they didn't pay anywhere near the full amount of taxes they owed and used those at the top of the government as their role models.
Being "moral" is certainly a choice for every individual. Actions such as lying and cheating are considered immoral in most cultures, including Argentina. Along with physically harming another person, they are included in those few "morals" that can be carved in stone. Few Argentines would physically harm another and I really want to believe that far more Argentines are honest than not. Unfortunately, there are more than enough who act as if they believe that morality is an option that they can exercise whenever they want (i.e. when they think they can do something they know is immoral without getting caught or having to deal with any negative consequences).
angelskywalker said:
Followed by:
deeve007 said:
Then this:
steveinbsas said:
Followed by this:
deeve007 said:Well from my reading of the thread, nobody had brought morality into the discussion until your post. So maybe just go delete it and your error will go unnoticed.
Though saying that... even morality can be relative in many, many ways. There are very few morals that are (or should be) "set in stone" for everyone. Sure, some, but not many.
Your post above is #39 in this thread. Perhaps you missed post #16:
Mitch said:
Though Mitch did not use the word moral , terms like lie, cheat, and inherently corrupt certainly apply to morality. I would have used the word integrity instead of dignity, otherwise I agree with what Mitch wrote, adding that of course this does not apply to every single Argentine.
Nonetheless, the third person I spoke to after entering Argentina for the first time extorted me for $100U$D. In the past five years I have been surprised several times by Argentines I thought I could trust who lied to and/or actually cheated me. Several other laughed as they told me they didn't pay anywhere near the full amount of taxes they owed and used those at the top of the government as their role models.
Being "moral" is certainly a choice for every individual. Actions such as lying and cheating are considered immoral in most cultures, including Argentina. Along with physically harming another person, they are included in those few "morals" that can be carved in stone. Few Argentines would physically harm another and I really want to believe that far more Argentines are honest than not. Unfortunately, there are more than enough who act as if they believe that morality is an option that they can exercise whenever they want (i.e. when they think they can do something they know is immoral without getting caught or having to deal with any negative consequences).
deeve007 said:
What you are saying is correct, I would say most of the people posting here have demonstrated their mobility of movement. However some people who immigrate do not and could not return home even if they wished. I am struck by the immigrants of 100-200 years ago who left home knowing that they would likely not have the option to return. Perhaps then they were making the same complains but were forced to make the best of it as other options were not so readily available.
steveinbsas
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deeve007 said:
Actually I am happy to see comments like yours.
Ethical relativism is exactly what is wrong with Argentina.
If that isn't correct please tell me what is.
Lets face it. For some people, Buenos Aires is a great place. We can't deny that for a lot of people in Argentina and in South America, that Buenos Aires is a step, or a few steps, up the latter when it comes to potential standards of living.
But the problems that are here are not just felt by foreigners (which many people seem to be implying). The locals here complain about the lack of security. The locals complain about inflation. The locals complain about the low salaries. The locals complain about how hard it is to own a business.
The problems here are felt by everyone. Sure, there are more annoyances here to everyday life. Sure, theres lines at banks, but there are lines at the banks back home too (granted, nothing like Banco de la Nacion). Yes its annoying to wait in line forever at Carrefour, Coto, or Jumbo, but its still better than the Wal Marts in the States where only 2 of the 20 or 30 registers are open.
Yes, the people here can be very rude, but for crying out loud, look what the locals live with. And bear in mind that the majority of them are not living here by choice as many of us are. They can't just decide to move back once they become fed up or once inflation becomes to high. In all honesty, I can't be surprised at their rudeness when I know that they put up with every day. I'm not saying that I like the rudeness, but it is just like all the dog poop on the sidewalks, it is annoying, but I can live with it.
And to whoever wants to blame foreigners for the attitudes of porteños, I am not exactly sure that blaming the Italians and Spanish is what you want to do when everyone in this city clings to their old world heritage. And so what if you got your attitude from the Spanish and the Italians, that is no reason to go on being rude without reason.
As I said, the problems affect everyone, and we all react differently to them. Some people find them to be an exciting challenge, others find them to be small annoyances that don't diminish how they feel about the city, while others want to leave.
If we were in a different place in our lives, and had the means to live here, we would stay, but for us, it is not the best place to be right now.
But the problems that are here are not just felt by foreigners (which many people seem to be implying). The locals here complain about the lack of security. The locals complain about inflation. The locals complain about the low salaries. The locals complain about how hard it is to own a business.
The problems here are felt by everyone. Sure, there are more annoyances here to everyday life. Sure, theres lines at banks, but there are lines at the banks back home too (granted, nothing like Banco de la Nacion). Yes its annoying to wait in line forever at Carrefour, Coto, or Jumbo, but its still better than the Wal Marts in the States where only 2 of the 20 or 30 registers are open.
Yes, the people here can be very rude, but for crying out loud, look what the locals live with. And bear in mind that the majority of them are not living here by choice as many of us are. They can't just decide to move back once they become fed up or once inflation becomes to high. In all honesty, I can't be surprised at their rudeness when I know that they put up with every day. I'm not saying that I like the rudeness, but it is just like all the dog poop on the sidewalks, it is annoying, but I can live with it.
And to whoever wants to blame foreigners for the attitudes of porteños, I am not exactly sure that blaming the Italians and Spanish is what you want to do when everyone in this city clings to their old world heritage. And so what if you got your attitude from the Spanish and the Italians, that is no reason to go on being rude without reason.
As I said, the problems affect everyone, and we all react differently to them. Some people find them to be an exciting challenge, others find them to be small annoyances that don't diminish how they feel about the city, while others want to leave.
If we were in a different place in our lives, and had the means to live here, we would stay, but for us, it is not the best place to be right now.
kurtdillard
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Here's what I don't like about the USA, my home country:
1. Many people are very materialistic and tend to judge each other based on what brand of clothes, cars, etc they own.
2. People who claim to be libertarian want to impose their moral values on others, e.g. Christian fundamentalists want to keep gay people from having marriage and they want to prevent single people from having premarital sex.
3. The war on drugs is incredibly counterproductive and destructive. I don't want to do drugs, but I am very sad by how the USA deals with the problem and how the policies of the USA make so much of Latin America suffer.
4. The imperialistic wars all over the world. The USA can't afford them and the rest of the world is hating our country more and more as we continue to drop freedom bombs.
5. The pervasive corporatism that has taken away so much political power and wealth
from the lower and middle classes.
6. The incredible rate at which wealth has been concentrating in the top 1% over the past 30 years.
7. Everything and anything in the name of security.
8. Obscene levels of corruption in D.C. between the politicians, lobbyists, and corporations who employ them all.
9. The derth of independent media.
1. Many people are very materialistic and tend to judge each other based on what brand of clothes, cars, etc they own.
2. People who claim to be libertarian want to impose their moral values on others, e.g. Christian fundamentalists want to keep gay people from having marriage and they want to prevent single people from having premarital sex.
3. The war on drugs is incredibly counterproductive and destructive. I don't want to do drugs, but I am very sad by how the USA deals with the problem and how the policies of the USA make so much of Latin America suffer.
4. The imperialistic wars all over the world. The USA can't afford them and the rest of the world is hating our country more and more as we continue to drop freedom bombs.
5. The pervasive corporatism that has taken away so much political power and wealth
from the lower and middle classes.
6. The incredible rate at which wealth has been concentrating in the top 1% over the past 30 years.
7. Everything and anything in the name of security.
8. Obscene levels of corruption in D.C. between the politicians, lobbyists, and corporations who employ them all.
9. The derth of independent media.
