How many of you want to leave Bs As?

deeve007 said:
Oh, so if somebody says that they just "love the buzz of the millions of people crowding the streets of BA", but someone else says they "hate that it's so crowded all the time", one of them is "wrong"?

Or someone else says they "love the winter, the sharp freshness in the air", and someone else says they "hate the winter, it chills me to the bone", one of them is also wrong?

...etc ...etc.

As I said, each to their own, thank god.

Person A likes Asian food, Person B doesn't...like your examples, are what are called "opinions".

Crime, selfishness and lack of common courtesy are ethical understandings...not opinions.

If one likes crime, thinks people should have no common courtesy and should be selfish, that is an opinion you are entitled to...to each their own. But it would be an opinion of one who is ethical flawed.
 
I find the people here to be quite nice, in general. They always have time to chat and they show an interest in people. They say what they think which I find so refreshing. They hug a bit too much but that's the Italian influence, I suppose.
 
pizza4breakfast said:
Ok, so everyone here is complaining about BsAs. Where would you suggest to go, instead?

I mean this honestly. I'm 1 month fresh here. So far, I have a few friends, I feel lonely, but I feel like all of this is as a result of my moving here by myself.

I'm in Sudamerica for 1 year. I fly out of EZE. However - I am not committed to staying in one place, and I have the ability to travel a little.

How is Cordoba? Quito? Cusco? Lima? Santiago? Montevideo?

I'm looking for an affordable city - hopefully even cheaper than BsAs. Where would you recommend?

Perhaps I stay here for the whole year and love it. I don't know. But for everyone's complaints, what all do you suggest as better places to go?

An excellent question.

I often visit Santiago and Chile in general. But I opted to move to BA. But I just got back from 10 days in Santiago. This time around, I had deeper observations. I saw TWICE, strangers volunteer to help a blind person cross the street. I saw every person have the common courtesy to wait for a train to empty before trying to get on. I saw people holding doors for strangers with thanks given. I saw short lines are even the most popular supermercados at 5-7pm at night. I saw helpful people on the streets, waiters, etc, offering recommendations for travelers and residents. I saw restaurant bills come back with exactly what was ordered. I saw friendly people who enjoyed taking about deeper things like politics, philosophy, society.

In other words, it's not a "gringo" thing about being in BA. It's not a "I'm a european in a foreign land" issue. It's that BA is BA. And the people in BA act as they do in BA.
 
I've lived here more than five years now and it's not the Argentines I have a problem with, far from it. I find them the most well mannered, polite and helpful people I have ever met.
It's the system that gets me down and frankly I can't see it changing. The people at the top couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery, let alone change a light bulb.
I'm British and pine for my country, but am stuck between a rock and a hard place. I have left ALL my family behind, am lucky to see them every three or four years.
We are seriously considering moving to the UK, lock stock, but I have to take into consideration ,my lady and her son which then puts the boot on the other foot completely.
Furthermore, does one want to exchange one set of problems with another?
It's a thorny nettle to grasp and sometimes time is a very great leveller.
 
John.St said:
After three years in Mendoza, I wouldn't dream of leaving - they'll have to carry me out, feet first and face covered. I am really happy here and have lot's of friends, mendocinas/-os (2/3) and expats (1/3).

The only thing I miss is walking through the forest in a snowstorm at minus 20-25 celtigrades, but I do that when I return to the old country a month every winter.

Been in San Rafael, Mendoza for a little over three years now. Adore living here. I have really not seen any of the rudeness or ill manners that you big city folks seem to deal with regularly. It is a wonderful, affordable life-style the climate is spectacular as is the scenery, food, women, etc...

Have recently crossed paths with someone I think will be very special and that seems to complete the picture.

Biggest frustration? The language which I am still far from mastering.

A 'far' better place to be than many other places in this world these days and the ones that are coming...

TC
 
It all boils down to culture. Expats grew up somewhere else. Argentina is different than home, not better or worse necessarily, but different. Look at countries that have experienced a lot of immigration, the new immigrants almost always cluster together in separate communities(at least for the first generation or so), the reason shared culture and values. My guess is that most expats here hangout with mainly other expats, quite normal in my opinion. The reason 80% of people don't make it past 2 years is this lack of shared culture and values, again very normal. It wouldn't make any difference if it were Argentina or someplace else most people aren't going to last past a couple of years. Those that make it longer are people who develop stronger ties through marriage, business, etc., there are exception but few in number. Fortunately we live in a modern age where its easy to pickup and move somewhere else, including back home.
 
Philsword said:
Fortunately we live in a modern age where its easy to pickup and move somewhere else, including back home.
For some of us, yes. But with many immigrants that you refer to, they often don't have the option, so put up with their "issues" long enough to have a family ...etc, who then gradually integrate more and more.

I don't think any of the "issues" in this thread are any different than those experienced by immigrants in the US, Australia, UK ...etc. We are rather fortunate coming from "western" countries, with the economic power to move around so much, I think some of us forget that.
 
It is a widely known truth that Baires has always been inhabited mostly by foreigners. So, if the "aliens made up the majority of the lineage of the city'' does that mean that their customs, good and bad habits come not entirely from native Argentines but from foreigners and their descendants? And that their rudeness and bad manners are not entirely theirs?

My post was not about ‘’ tucking tails between…’’ but about ACCEPTING that every society, from the first to the third-world one, has advantages and disadvantages. I believe Argentina is somehow a young country, which as so, is not mature yet. Their people, melting pot, hotties and other positive epithets many people have used here to describe them, doesn’t seem to fit into this image of uncivilized society that tuck their tails between their legs and don’t embrace evolution or change that’s been said quite recently. I guess it’s a matter of time for the change to happen which as someone said, should come from the individual, but again, I don’t think people from the UK, the USA, France, Germany and so on, were always civilized and proper, were they? Rules and order came from above, after learning from the past and compelling people and instilling in their new generations certain customs and laws. Many of you came here in a quest for LESS CONTROL AND RULES from the government, in a quest for a more laid-back society, less consumerism-orientated society, blablabla……. right?

Is really meaningless drivel to point out that one man’s meat is another man’s poison? The good and the bad things of the Baires’ society are simply different to what ails other big capital cities. Crime, selfishness and lack of common courtesy are commonplace here. People who want to change it knows that it takes time and convincing others that change is possible and perhaps most importantly, necessary. If you take that path, give the example and get ready to have people staring at you for being different. Have some of you tried that instead of whining here? Or moving outside Baires?

If you’re a foreigner and focus on the bad things of a place and their people, dine out with your fellow expats, give your vote to surveys about things you dislike about the place where you live, the things you miss from your country, exchanging personal cards with other expats and keep poking your nose at whatever post that comes up on the expat site, then I guess you’ll end up being just another Johnny-no-argie-mates.

I’ve met some of you and to be honest, you didn’t strike me as being particularly Argentinian-friend-prone. Perhaps more like party animals, seeking for company to enjoy the Baires nightlife, meeting ‘hottie childish women’, finding restaurants where you can find tasty food instead of boring pasta, talking about politics from your own countries, feeling great because you live in a very European city, etc., etc., etc. I’ve seen Argentinians posting and getting no replies to get together. Any ideas why that happened?

Living in a society like this is a cross to bear that many should think about before coming to settle down. I simply thought that it was more constructive to accept that a wrong decision was made when coming here, than pointing out at all the bad things this society has, which by the way, has allowed many expats to live comfortably, happily and profitably.
 
We had a conversation about this last night as its very clear to my Argentine that by December I will be ready to leave and he proposed this question to me:

"If you take a guy from the villa and bring him to Palermo to live in our apartment, is he going to suffer? Ok, now think if you took Macri´s son to live in a villa. Will he suffer? Who out of the two will suffer more?"

I know what my response was and I know what his was which is why he has stated that he has no issues leaving Argentina for the north.

Very interesting to ponder..
 
It's a fair point legilber.

If you've only lived in Argentina, it's normal for you to queue up for hours in the bank, that ATMs more often than not won't have money in them, that you have to purchase things like cars and houses in cash (and then, in the case of cars, have to wait months for it to arrive after you've purchased it), that "haciendo tramites" takes countless trips, everything needs to be done in person, that going to the grocery store takes forever and there is no guarantee what will be available, etc, etc.

If you come from a country where these things don't happen, dealing with them which is frustrating at the best of times, becomes almost impossibly exhausting. It's not normal to expats and little things compound to big things and little frustrations quickly blow up.

I get the frustrations that people have and understand why many want to leave. If I didn't have an accountant and a lawyer that helped me navigate the system here - legal, financial, etc, I probably would have thrown up my hands and left.
 
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