If anyone wants to understand why Argentina is in hot water again $$$..

#61
Any Hard data? Or it is just xenophobia?

If you see the statics of the Federal Jail system, foreigners are proportionally a lot more honest than locals and about half of them were in transit here as mules, they disn’t even live here.

The US closed their borders with 144 million, we are lacking 60 millions before to close the borders to immigration.

San luis is alike California in territory but with 150.000 inhabitants. San luis economy does not exist because of the lack of people.

You can't deport citizens for being criminals, so the comparison is a non-starter. However, we should be able to kick immigrants out who commit crimes, and we don't. Furthermore, you chose to counter my second point, not my most important point. Argentina cannot afford to give foreigners, welfare, free medical, and education. We have a lot of foreigners who come to Argentina to take advantage of our free services, only to leave after they have completed their training. That does NOT serve Argentina well. I don't understand why you think Argentina should follow in the footsteps of The U.S. when it comes to its immigration policy, especially when they are a much larger nation than we are, and have a completely different economy. We are two entirely different countries
 
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#62
Let's not forget that Macri's presidential election victory in 2015 was NOT a repudiation of the K government. Macri bearly pulled off a win with about a 1% margin. He should have governed accordingly. However, Macri chose not to. He will pay a hefty political price for that.
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People believe wrongly that if you do not support Macri that you automatically support Peronismo . It is a fact that when Nestor Kirchner was in power that the economy in Argentina was booming and Buenos Aires was transformed in many ways . I lived in Palermo Soho at that time and every week new businesses would open and the neighbourhood was vibrant and electric . Now Palermo Soho is a shadow of what it was with many closed business , no new businesses , noone shopping as prices are too high . The inflation under Macri is definetely much higher than before and it has a much stronger effect now as the base prices are sky high . In 2004 three medialunas and a coffee were 2.80 pesos or less than one dollar . Now this same deal is 100 pesos or 4 dollars . In 2004 the inflation rate was 20% approximately but from such a low base of prices it does not have the same effect as inflation today on prices that are already sky high . The current inflation rate is over 30% and on many items even higher . Food prices are higher in Buenos Aires than Sydney Australia where I was recently . You can eat excellent curries, stir fries , steaks , hamburgers for less than US$ 10 in many places in Sydney . To have a similar meal in Buenos Aires you pay more and the serving size is less. This is a very noticeable trend over the years as serving sizes have become significantly smaller here in Buenos Aires .
 
#63
You can't deport citizens for being criminals, so the comparison is a non-starter. However, we should be able to kick immigrants out who commit crimes, and we don't. Furthermore, you chose to counter my second point, not my most important point. Argentina cannot afford to give foreigners, welfare, free medical, and education. We have a lot of foreigners who come to Argentina to take advantage of our free services, only to leave after they have completed their training. That does NOT serve Argentina well. I don't understand why you think Argentina should follow in the footsteps of The U.S. when it comes to its immigration policy, especially when they are a much larger nation than we are, and have a completely different economy. We are two entirely different countries
Foreigners who commit crimes are voluntary deported afyer they spend hald the time of the sentence in jail.

Immigrants who are accused of commiting a crime are innocent until they are found guilty, then they have to go to jail.

Perhaps you mean an ethnic cleansy...

Completing their training? You means foreign students at public univerties who pay for their studies? You seems to see to much tv and, because of it, you are missinformed.

Foreigners who use the health system? Jatango posted about this, an authority of the CABA government was asked about it, he replied that it is full of people from Buenos Aires (foreigners according to him) who use the local hospitals.

However, perhaps you do not realize that no matter where are they from , if they are inhabitants, they have the right to use it.

The comparision with the US is obvious, they close their borders when they had enough population. Peron closed without population and this is the reason of the argentine failure.
 
#64
Foreigners who commit crimes are voluntary deported afyer they spend hald the time of the sentence in jail.

Immigrants who are accused of commiting a crime are innocent until they are found guilty, then they have to go to jail.

Perhaps you mean an ethnic cleansy...

Completing their training? You means foreign students at public univerties who pay for their studies? You seems to see to much tv and, because of it, you are missinformed.

Foreigners who use the health system? Jatango posted about this, an authority of the CABA government was asked about it, he replied that it is full of people from Buenos Aires (foreigners according to him) who use the local hospitals.

However, perhaps you do not realize that no matter where are they from , if they are inhabitants, they have the right to use it.

The comparision with the US is obvious, they close their borders when they had enough population. Peron closed without population and this is the reason of the argentine failure.

O.K. This conversation stops right here because you are just trolling now. You will no longer receive any responses from me.
 

ben

Active Member
#65
While I’m very specific, you are not.
In our legal system Judges are banned to judge according to moral, this is why I do not care about it, because I know the legal system.
But you do switch - effortlessly - between discussing law and discussing policy. You speak of how many people live in San Luis - that is irrelevant to the law, it is a policy discussion.

The immigration policy of Argentina, as espoused in the CN and in ley 346, is what it is. That's a legal debate.
Whether these can be modified with a DNU or not (and I think not), is a legal debate.
Whether this should be the immigration policy here, or whether you think it should be more regulated, is a policy debate not a legal one. It is about what is right - of a society's obligations vis-a-vis newcomers, vs. its obligations to its own.

And if you happen to believe that it should be more closed, if you further believe that conflating such a position with Nazism is absurd, insulting and just unacceptable, then you will support exploiting every legal avenue within the system to tighten things up. Much as in the US, Obama couldn't abolish the Cuba sanctions - they are enshrined in law - but he could and did change the reglamento to substantially reduce them, sometimes all but completely.

There is a difference between going to San Luis and opening a factory or business (or even going to work for one), and coming to Capital and living off the welfare state. The combination of a safety net available to all and no immigration controls is a rather combustible one.
To the best of my knowledge, the doctors are not working pro bono, nor should they. You want an honest conversation about health care for all, including immigrants and/or medical tourists, great. But acknowledge that someone is paying for this.

I have the feeling that for you is like some kind of taboo to talk or discuss about nazism
Depends on context. You know? Context.
If we were discussing the equivalent of the Japanese internment happening to Bolivians one fine day? By no means - it would be appropriate.
But applied to an immigration debate? Sacrilege.

Again - if the Nazis' crimes were limited to expelling non-citizens on flimsy grounds - even if they'd only expelled non-citizen Jews on flimsy grounds - you would never have heard of the Nazis. You speak of Baumbach and transfer of authority from courts to the administrative state - I wonder when was the last time you read the Nuremberg Laws.

Dismissal of Jews (and all non-Aryans) from the civil service was not done by any bureaucratic agency - it was done via a law.

The difference between a judicial system and an administrative one, and the propensity of the latter to be abused, can be easily understood without argumentum ad hitlerum. And if you think that racism is involved, just say so.

I am sure - seriously, not being facetious - that study of the legal doctrines of the NSDAP makes for fascinating study. As does study of cross-pollination with other legal systems. But again - to refer to the immigration policy of Argentina as Nazi-like, is to be a jerk. It is to swallow a suppository of Godwin's Law laced with LSD.

Just stop, for the sake of preserving whatever shred of credibility you may yet have.
 
#67
Ben, here is your legal mistake: the immigration policy is in several articles of the National Constitution and it cannot be changed by DNU and the SC established that it cannot be changed not even with a law of the Congress.
 
#68
Ben, to close of frontiers to immigration was established at the Second Quinquenal Plan and in its 2 secret chapters was explained that immigration should be selectionated by ethnic (race + languaje). Later, another dictator (Ongania) specified that Spaniards, Italians and French were welcome.
In between Peron created the ethnic institut (eugenesic).
No matter how laws changed, immigration continue enforcing those race arian laws.

They also discriminated between nationality and citizenship that was buried with the french Revolution and resurrected by Hitler at Mein Kamp and the Nuremberg Laws.
 
#69
Here you are confused. There were 3 citizenship laws and about 90 administrative decrees enacted by the directors of each agency.

But you are confusing the law with the procedure. I explained the procedure ambushes of the Nazism.

The province constitutions had a clause that stated “the rights are going to be enforced according to the regulation”, the Constitution of Weimar stablished equal civil rights to foreigners and the draconian reglamentation were the Nuremberg laws and before that the reform of the civil procedure and citizenship law of 1933. 6D5A1A65-F422-4016-B2D5-C9D6FFFB9A2B.jpeg
 
#70
FE8B54F4-E2BF-43CB-965F-BC88EE99DB8B.jpeg Well, the problem is when the law enforces Baumbauch tesis. We can understand it is a dangerous system but this is not enough to declare it unconstitutional while to probe it is An arian law is more than enough because to enforce them when the Director of Immigration confessed an ethnic cleansy plan might violate the Ginebra Treatries and judges are criminally responsible under international criminal Courts.

I do not understand your Hitler’s phobia that shows a huge lack of understanding of continental law.