It's entirely possible that some folks who were present / witness to the event at Retiro Stn, this evening, could be on this forum, in which case we'll perhaps have even better information than what I can provide, here.
I've lived here for 28 months, now, but I STILL don't know everything (if there are people living here who know everything, will you all be so kind as to PLEASE step forward - RIGHT NOW? Thank you!).
OK, so... here's is what I saw this evening, there:
I noticed a very loud-mouthed woman who was half hanging inside and half hanging outside the lead car's middle doors of a J Suarez-bound train, at Retiro (@~18h40) with a cigarette in one hand and speaking in what I might consider to seem an unmistakably 'street' sounding voice (loud, rough-edged)... I saw she was well-'attended' by two young males, and I also finally noticed that (after she turned a bit) she was extremely pregnant (I phrased that badly: She didn't become pregnant after she turned, I don't think... but I only noticed it then!).
Then, when she'd finished the cigarette, the next thing that I noticed was her being very warmly hugged by one of the men, just inside the train, and the other man had stepped off the train and was discreetly some small distance away on the platform.
Then, I watched her AND her male friends very loudly walk down the platform, back toward the station and toward the REAR of the train... and then all of them very shortly returned - I'd say probably within less than a minute - pushing a baby carriage which hadn't previously been with them (nor did anybody new come back with both them and it, this round) - and they all entered that same lead car through those same middle doors...
Then we ALL became aware of loud yelling (on this same woman's part) and roughly about 12 officials who'd already gathered there (2 federal cops and a bunch of what I'd say only passes for train security but which, I've noted, is really just train-attendant security since this person always follows behind whomever the attendant is that closes the doors, but that security person does little except shadow that worker) and the woman was remaining inside the train car standing there and yelling, still. A couple of people appeared to possibly be plain-clothes-type officers, of some kind, as well.
I couldn't hear NOR understand any single word which anybody uttered at all, whatsoever - partly due to my distance and partly because my own abilities aren't so good yet with rapidly-spoken slang - so the following is entirely conjecture on my part, based upon what observation I could manage, alone:
It LOOKED like she was both pregnant AND refusing to disembark, and that possibly those 2 items were somehow linked to the inactivity of everybody (this is really the crux of my question, here). Those 12 or so officials just stood there on the platform... I never saw nor heard anything from the mouths of these officials... who stood there apparently very silently and watched and blocked the doors and did little else.
Now, I must remark here - and I really hope that this is noted - that the restraint used by these officials in this encounter... at least as far as we were able to see before our own train departed - seemed remarkable given that where I come from (N America's two still predominantly English-speaking countries) the woman might well have been dragged off with everybody instantly posting their own cell-phone footage on social media (or worse).
HOWEVER... with that said...
This went on for probably about 10 minutes, or so... and finally, that train must have had an announcement made as almost all of its passengers disembarked virtually simultaneously. I was either waiting (at the outset) or aboard a train on track 2; this all occurred aboard and around a train on track 3. A number of passengers came forward to talk with the officials, by which time we were all sitting and waiting for our own neighbouring train to depart. I would guess that the encounters by these other passengers were just simple questioning of what had happened... as their train seemed to not be leaving for the longest time and they walked away very soon after they approached the officers.
Meanwhile, occasional yelling from this woman could still be heard from inside our neighbouring train.
My question goes to this lack of anything happening on the part of the officials, and the fact that an entire train platform and track, the entire rush-hour train consist, several hundred passengers and (I'm relatively sure) at least some back-up of further services were all inconvenienced by something which people felt, observed (or both) this woman had done... yet nothing moved - including the officials!
Now, I could have things backwards, or perhaps my stone-age old carcass might possibly have confuzzled new rules-of-conduct with the ones that I learned when I was being raised, but my usual sense of things is that while we tend to try to strongly guard minority rights and help those who are less advantaged in some way, we - at the same time (and that's the real issue in MY mind, here) - accept that the majority of people should not be inconvenienced by a minority of folks. In other words, people should be able to protest (just to use a frequent local example) but perhaps NOT tie up traffic? (I know... after 28 months, I've learned that this isn't so... despite an announcement that all this would somehow change during the current administration's term... and yes, I know it's been discussed here before). Yes, it IS concerning that further despotic behaviour on the part of any government might intrude on the 30+ years of democracy and return things to something resembling less freedom and being more restrictive (maybe even repressive) but since when do a minority of persons inconvenience a majority of persons when that majority isn't the source of the problem? [I like to express this concept this way: I can extend my arm at any time I wish to do so and in any direction I choose to do so, and at any speed I choose to do so... as long as it doesn't connect with any part of somebody else's space.] So, while many (in my opinion) seem to confuse the concepts of discipline and repression, here (explaining that children are not disciplined hardly at all - unless they're about to hurt themselves - because people here don't like repression... and this is since they experienced it before and don't want any, again... and I've been told this by at least 4 people, here, who are all Argentine by birth and upbringing) I nevertheless believe it is possible to quietly, carefully, calmly and politely remove a person from a train who (while probably continuing to yell and scream and curse while this is done) is causing some disturbance around others... at least long enough to have some questioning occur to determine what, exactly, the story is on both sides (and perhaps allowing the other so-far inconvenienced folks to continue their journey which they've paid for). Perhaps I'm naive to believe that this kind of calm extraction is possible, but I think it is!
Yet this did not occur.
So: The answer I overheard being given, I think (which was directed to others seated nearby, almost all of whom were all also talking about this same situation) was that the law says something about pregnant women... but the details of which I couldn't make out... In other words, I clearly heard the man explaining something about a law and something about pregnant women... but I couldn't catch anything else.
I SUSPECT it MAY have something to do with who can arrest / detain / restrain / touch / search... or something?
Does anybody have any clues to what this may reference?
I DID note that all the officers were male... so I might have it correctly sussed out, above, here. But, maybe not.
[I also noted that the 2 males who'd been with this woman seemed to me to disappear... Maybe they didn't but they sure weren't vocal in any manner approaching hers... which may be to their credit, actually!]
THOUGHTS, ANYBODY?
Thanks,
Paul
I've lived here for 28 months, now, but I STILL don't know everything (if there are people living here who know everything, will you all be so kind as to PLEASE step forward - RIGHT NOW? Thank you!).
OK, so... here's is what I saw this evening, there:
I noticed a very loud-mouthed woman who was half hanging inside and half hanging outside the lead car's middle doors of a J Suarez-bound train, at Retiro (@~18h40) with a cigarette in one hand and speaking in what I might consider to seem an unmistakably 'street' sounding voice (loud, rough-edged)... I saw she was well-'attended' by two young males, and I also finally noticed that (after she turned a bit) she was extremely pregnant (I phrased that badly: She didn't become pregnant after she turned, I don't think... but I only noticed it then!).
Then, when she'd finished the cigarette, the next thing that I noticed was her being very warmly hugged by one of the men, just inside the train, and the other man had stepped off the train and was discreetly some small distance away on the platform.
Then, I watched her AND her male friends very loudly walk down the platform, back toward the station and toward the REAR of the train... and then all of them very shortly returned - I'd say probably within less than a minute - pushing a baby carriage which hadn't previously been with them (nor did anybody new come back with both them and it, this round) - and they all entered that same lead car through those same middle doors...
Then we ALL became aware of loud yelling (on this same woman's part) and roughly about 12 officials who'd already gathered there (2 federal cops and a bunch of what I'd say only passes for train security but which, I've noted, is really just train-attendant security since this person always follows behind whomever the attendant is that closes the doors, but that security person does little except shadow that worker) and the woman was remaining inside the train car standing there and yelling, still. A couple of people appeared to possibly be plain-clothes-type officers, of some kind, as well.
I couldn't hear NOR understand any single word which anybody uttered at all, whatsoever - partly due to my distance and partly because my own abilities aren't so good yet with rapidly-spoken slang - so the following is entirely conjecture on my part, based upon what observation I could manage, alone:
It LOOKED like she was both pregnant AND refusing to disembark, and that possibly those 2 items were somehow linked to the inactivity of everybody (this is really the crux of my question, here). Those 12 or so officials just stood there on the platform... I never saw nor heard anything from the mouths of these officials... who stood there apparently very silently and watched and blocked the doors and did little else.
Now, I must remark here - and I really hope that this is noted - that the restraint used by these officials in this encounter... at least as far as we were able to see before our own train departed - seemed remarkable given that where I come from (N America's two still predominantly English-speaking countries) the woman might well have been dragged off with everybody instantly posting their own cell-phone footage on social media (or worse).
HOWEVER... with that said...
This went on for probably about 10 minutes, or so... and finally, that train must have had an announcement made as almost all of its passengers disembarked virtually simultaneously. I was either waiting (at the outset) or aboard a train on track 2; this all occurred aboard and around a train on track 3. A number of passengers came forward to talk with the officials, by which time we were all sitting and waiting for our own neighbouring train to depart. I would guess that the encounters by these other passengers were just simple questioning of what had happened... as their train seemed to not be leaving for the longest time and they walked away very soon after they approached the officers.
Meanwhile, occasional yelling from this woman could still be heard from inside our neighbouring train.
My question goes to this lack of anything happening on the part of the officials, and the fact that an entire train platform and track, the entire rush-hour train consist, several hundred passengers and (I'm relatively sure) at least some back-up of further services were all inconvenienced by something which people felt, observed (or both) this woman had done... yet nothing moved - including the officials!
Now, I could have things backwards, or perhaps my stone-age old carcass might possibly have confuzzled new rules-of-conduct with the ones that I learned when I was being raised, but my usual sense of things is that while we tend to try to strongly guard minority rights and help those who are less advantaged in some way, we - at the same time (and that's the real issue in MY mind, here) - accept that the majority of people should not be inconvenienced by a minority of folks. In other words, people should be able to protest (just to use a frequent local example) but perhaps NOT tie up traffic? (I know... after 28 months, I've learned that this isn't so... despite an announcement that all this would somehow change during the current administration's term... and yes, I know it's been discussed here before). Yes, it IS concerning that further despotic behaviour on the part of any government might intrude on the 30+ years of democracy and return things to something resembling less freedom and being more restrictive (maybe even repressive) but since when do a minority of persons inconvenience a majority of persons when that majority isn't the source of the problem? [I like to express this concept this way: I can extend my arm at any time I wish to do so and in any direction I choose to do so, and at any speed I choose to do so... as long as it doesn't connect with any part of somebody else's space.] So, while many (in my opinion) seem to confuse the concepts of discipline and repression, here (explaining that children are not disciplined hardly at all - unless they're about to hurt themselves - because people here don't like repression... and this is since they experienced it before and don't want any, again... and I've been told this by at least 4 people, here, who are all Argentine by birth and upbringing) I nevertheless believe it is possible to quietly, carefully, calmly and politely remove a person from a train who (while probably continuing to yell and scream and curse while this is done) is causing some disturbance around others... at least long enough to have some questioning occur to determine what, exactly, the story is on both sides (and perhaps allowing the other so-far inconvenienced folks to continue their journey which they've paid for). Perhaps I'm naive to believe that this kind of calm extraction is possible, but I think it is!
Yet this did not occur.
So: The answer I overheard being given, I think (which was directed to others seated nearby, almost all of whom were all also talking about this same situation) was that the law says something about pregnant women... but the details of which I couldn't make out... In other words, I clearly heard the man explaining something about a law and something about pregnant women... but I couldn't catch anything else.
I SUSPECT it MAY have something to do with who can arrest / detain / restrain / touch / search... or something?
Does anybody have any clues to what this may reference?
I DID note that all the officers were male... so I might have it correctly sussed out, above, here. But, maybe not.
[I also noted that the 2 males who'd been with this woman seemed to me to disappear... Maybe they didn't but they sure weren't vocal in any manner approaching hers... which may be to their credit, actually!]
THOUGHTS, ANYBODY?
Thanks,
Paul
