Import Restrictions To Be Lifted

[Matiasba]

Why? When we do, you ignore them.

Actually its YOU ignoring my arguments right now. i explained how this government indsutrialised, how good is that to argentines, how I prefer imports restrictions to be released and all I got is "you re on acids" or something like that.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

The thing is, yes, maybe the quality is inferior, our cars can not compete with Germany, or our electronics are no good compared to Japan.
But thats a *detail* if we think what argentine industry represents to Argentina. It means work, good, quality work, en blanco, etc, for a lot of argentineans, it means growth, it means prosperity, industry is prosperity, in Argentina, China or the US.

And BTW, search about planned obsolesence, its not that things last today like it did. Things are made, EVERYWHERE, to last 5-8 years. EVERYTHING. So the quality premise of US goods so much better than Argentine ones, I dispute.

Argentina practices obsolescence. Serious countries practice innovation.

 

[sleslie23]

Actually its YOU ignoring my arguments right now. i explained how this government indsutrialised, how good is that to argentines, how I prefer imports restrictions to be released and all I got is "you re on acids" or something like that.

So, you are fine with Argentina producing mediocre products for internal consumption? What you fail to acknowledge is that import restrictions hurt as much as they help. All imports aren't luxury items and iCrap. There are shortages of medicines. IT companies can't replace necessary infrastructure hardware. The list goes on and on and on.

The problem with Argentines like you Matias is that you strive for mediocrity. Just like your Gini coefficient argument, you are happy that Argentina is mediocre. You're willing to cut off one of your arms as long as the other one is covered in a badly made, overpriced, yet locally produced sleeve.

EDIT: Just to add a little anecdote, EVERY time I come to Argentina someone begs me to bring them electronics because what is available elsewhere is better and less expensive. In the last 2-3 years, I've also had people ask me to bring clothing (coats, shoes, etc.) Why is that Matias?

 

[thorsten]

And guess what the customer will buy if the import barriers fall down. I'm sure all of them will happily pick the inferior product just to support Argentina and keep the industry alive...

 

[Matiasba]

So, you are fine with Argentina producing mediocre products for internal consumption? What you fail to acknowledge is that import restrictions hurt as much as they help. All imports aren't luxury items and iCrap. There are shortages of medicines. IT companies can't replace necessary infrastructure hardware. The list goes on and on and on.

The problem with Argentines like you Matias is that you strive for mediocrity. Just like your Gini coefficient argument, big are happy that Argentina is mediocre. Your willing to cut off one of your arms as long as the other one is covered in a badly made, overpriced, yet locally produced sleeve.

First of all, I never said I was happy with argentinas gini coefficient. In fact is far away from what it used to be, and it has raised a lot in the past (neoliberal) 30 years.
I only said that by Latam standards is ok. But Latin America is by far the more unequal region of the planet, and we do not have that problem like other countres in the region. That, to understand Im happy is a big step. But go ahead, understand whatever you want.

I am happy that Argentina has a lot more industry than ten years ago. VERY HAPPY. Because industry is prosperity. If what that industry produces was excellent quality, competitive and for export, of course I would be happier. But it never was like that, and today I do not expect that. I said thousands times here on this board that our competitive sector, the one which brings dollars, is the agro, not the industry. But, you know, there are millions and millions of people that need a job that EL CAMPO can not provide. So, we have argentine industry. Pymes. I prefer them buying argentine stuff with it implicancies than buying imported stuff tthat destroy argentine jobs.

And by the way, a lot of argentine stuff I find it equally good to imported stuff. You read well? a lot, not everything.

 

[Matiasba]

And guess what the customer will buy if the import barriers fall down. I'm sure all of them will happily pick the inferior product just to support Argentina and keep the industry alive...

Of course as it happened during the last dictatorship and during menemismo, not by accident the two periods of -neoliberalismo- and by this I mean, incredibly high rates of unemployment, poverty and gini index, there were these "APERTURA COMERCIAL" measures.
In both cases, they let everything in, without taxes, destroying our national industry, our Pymes, our industria framework.

 

[sleslie23]

First of all, I never said I was happy with argentinas gini coefficient. In fact is far away from what it used to be, and it has raised a lot in the past (neoliberal) 30 years.
I only said that by Latam standards is ok. But Latin America is by far the more unequal region of the planet, and we do not have that problem like other countres in the region. That, to understand Im happy is a big step. But go ahead, understand what you want.

I am happy that Argentina has a lot more industry than ten years ago. VERY HAPPY. Because industry is prosperity. If what that industry produces was excellent quality, competitive and for export, of course I would be happier. But it never was like that, and today I do not expect that. I said thousands times here on this board that our competitive sector, the one which brings dollars, is the agro, not the industry. But, you know, there are millions and millions of people that need a job that EL CAMPO can not provide. So, we have argentine industry. Pymes. I prefer them buying argentine stuff with it implicancies than buying imported stuff tthat destroy argentine jobs.

And by the way, a lot of argentine stuff I find it equally good to imported stuff. You read well? a lot, not everything.

And you think this model and the way it is put in place is sustainable?

I don't have a problem understanding you Matias. The problem is you often make wild statements that on the surface sound crazy (remember your world cup prediction?)

I agree with everything you wrote in your last post. But I don't think the model is sustainable. If Argentines would focus on making decent products that are competitive outside of Argentina, then the future might look a little better. But as things now, forcing sub-standard domestic production via regulations and import restrictions is only going to cause more problems once those are removed. Would you agree that is a problem?

 

[Gringoboy]

What you fail to understand Matias is that many businesses have gone under as a result of these draconian measures, because their business model was based on a free market and they imported goods to sell on. Read that again...free market.
Many others have had to resort to bribery to have their 20ft containers released at customs. In one case I know of, the bloke had to hand over 11,000 USD cash as a bribe.
Isolationism and protectionism are all very well, but as a slightly less harsh measure, many countries impose import taxes on certain products to protect local industry.

 

[camberiu]

Several years ago, Positivo, the largest computer manufacturer in Latin America had plans to build a massive computer manufacturing facility in Argentina. It would not be a pure assembly plant either, but true manufacturing of motherboards, power supplies, etc....All for the Argentine domestic market and for export. The idea was completely scrapped due to the import restrictions, which made the whole project inviable.

A refrigerator is made up of about 50 thousand components. An aircraft has over 7 million different components, from the most varied type of industries. No single country, not even China, can be industrially self sufficient.

This model of having everything being build domestically works very well if you want your society stuck in the 1950s.

 

[sleslie23]

This model of having everything being build domestically works very well if you want your society stuck in the 1950s.

This is what Matias and his ilk fail to comprehend. You can have a productive, stable, more egalitarian society without having to live in the 50s.

Of course to do so, you might have to run your society on more than populist rhetoric. And you might also have to eliminate some of the corruption.

Hmmm, that ain't happening in Argentina. Maybe Matias is right ... Ajo y agua es lo que hay!