In Memoriam, Charlie Hebdo

polostar88 said:
It's Islam that has "bloody borders" with every other religion, whether it's Buddhists, Hindus, Christians, Jews, and whatever.

That said, Islam is the business of Muslims. [background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Immigration into France is the business of the French...and something they could control more easily than changing Islam... [/background]
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Muslims are the first victims of those fascislamists. France is facing a challenge since it's a kind of lab: mixing Christians, Muslims (many = around 5 million), Jews (many = around 600.000), while being one of the only secular country on earth, hence the different approach towards showing religious beliefs in public places.

Anyway, those guys have been located now, won't be long before they get captured
 
Danmark and Sweden are both Christian Monarchies and face the same "challenge", in fact just a few weeks ago a woman was heavily punished for wearing a little gold necklace in public.

The USA is also a country where Church and State are officially separated at the Federal level and free speech is enshrined... and yet the following situation occurred over eight years ago: http://southpark.cc....on-wars-part-ii

I do agree with Frenchie that people who are by accident of birth born into that cult are the first victims of it, particularly 54% of them (all women and homosexuals)
 
polostar88 said:
you don't find many Christians killing in the name of God now (please don't bring up Crusades or things that happened a while ago).
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So you don't think the Crusades still resonate in the collective consciousness of Islamists? You don't think that radicals refer to the military actions of the US as "crusades" against Islam? You don't think that they use that to recruit young boys to their cause or try to swing popular opinion?
 
polostar88 said:
A bit of an abstract thing to say. First, you don't find many Christians killing in the name of God now (please don't bring up Crusades or things that happened a while ago). It's Islam that has "bloody borders" with every other religion, whether it's Buddhists, Hindus, Christians, Jews, and whatever.
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Crusades? We don;t have to go back nearly that far. There were brutal killing done by Christian in large numbers at Sabra and Shatila or Srebrenica. Also, the genocide in Rwanda was the brainchild of local Catholic Priests and was done under the name of God. Let's no forget the words of Christian "Madeline Albright" about the killing of 500 thousand Iraqi children.

http://youtu.be/omnskeu-puE

So I find your singling out of Muslims as to being more "bloody" than anyone else to be intellectually dishonest.
 
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Sadly this will change France, the threat was known and understood.

The police officers were on site and at least aware of the potential threat, they were not significantly outnumbered either. Questions will be asked as to how come the murderers knew so much about the company's diary (attacked during a meeting when all targets were present) and how come they, albeit seemingly well trained, were able to brush aside police protection so simply.

The timing is horribly unfortunate given the surge of ant-islamic marches in Germany and the rise of the French far right.

We won't solve the problem of home grown radicals with further sectarianism and closed borders, that's for sure.
 
camberiu said:
Crusades? We don;t have to go back nearly that far. There were brutal killing done by Christian in large numbers at Sabra and Shatila or Srebrenica. Also, the genocide in Rwanda was the brainchild of local Catholic Priests and was done under the name of God. Let's no forget the words of Christian "Madeline Albright" about the killing of 500 thousand Iraqi children.


So I find your singling out of Muslims as to being more "bloody" than anyone else to be intellectually dishonest.
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Whilst I agree to a certain extent, it's churlish to point the finger at the catholic church in Rwanda and ignore the hutu and tsuti tribal hatred, to a certain extent fomented by their erstwhile colonial rulers. I'd say the UN bear as much if not more responsibility due to their inaction.

In the "West", religious violence doesn't inspire much support, we kill for new gods. Access to markets, raw materials and protection of our chosen ideology. We polish it up and call it freedom. Hard fcking luck if you live somewhere were Freedom (tm) is being delivered.
 
I can't believe how fast everyone is falling over themselves to be the first defenders of formalized bigotry. Our very real freedom of speech is at stake.

That said, this horrible event could have been planned by the "Right" to cause a reaction, but does that change the essence of it? People were killed for drawing a cartoon of history's most revered paedophile. If that situation was not already possible (and it's been for years, ever since The Satanic Verses) the "Right" would not have been able to pull such a stunt.

I do agree that people invariably suffer a lot when Democracy is forced upon a region by the United States (such as Europe 1918 or the Middle East at the moment)
 
The problems tend to happen after the Freedom Delivery.

"Oh, sorry sir, you didn't order drone bombings, political instability, poverty and outside interference with your Freedom? We'll check your order and get right back to you"
 
Matt84 said:
I can't believe how fast everyone is falling over themselves to be the first defenders of formalized bigotry. Our very real freedom of speech is at stake.
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I see a huge difference between "defending formalized bigotry" and refusing to cast collective guilt on 1.2 billion Muslims. The incident in France was horrible and unjustifiable, but hardly the worst offense against our freedoms so far. Our freedoms have been under assault long before this, and the assault usually comes from the government above all. In the middle of all this hysteria, was very refreshing to see the interview of the editors of the German magazine "Titanic", who also publishes cartoons making fun of Islam.

"We have published very critical jokes about Islam in the past and we have found that Muslims, at least in Germany, are quite capable of dealing with this kind of humor."

"Do such critical spoofs on Islam provoke stronger, or more prolific reactions from readers?"
"No, actually not. We have found it's far easier to anger Christians or fans of Michael Schumacher."

Whole interview here.
 
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