Is Argentina a good idea?

[cipriana]

Hello all. I am really glad I found this community and hope to become an avid contributor. I currently have a blog on life in Brazil called Brazilphenomenon.

I was born in Argentina and lived there in the past. I was raised in London, UK and have also lived 20 years in Brazil.

Now, we are selling our land and home to move back to Argentina. The reasons are complicated, what with all the stability and growth that´s supposedly going on in Brazil, most people would prefer to stay. However, after so many years moving up and down Brazil looking for the ideal location and after living in the interior of SP for 10 years, we are desperate for the life we had in Argentina where we could savour good food at a decent price, sip coffee in café and buy decent veggies, bread and icecream, for example. We are also hungry for culture, as most Brazilians don´t read and have no "senso crítico" so the quality of cultural activities in Brazil is really, really low. There is no real sense or appreciation of beauty (art). Unless you like dancing and celebrating there is not much else you can do. Some gringos, as expats are called here, live in large cities where they manage to find some alternatives, but those of us who seek a better quality of life in the interior don´t often have those resources.
We have some income and hope to open a business in some city in the interior of Buenos Aires.

My questions are: How is your life in Buenos Aires? How does inflation and all the political mess affect your life? (I was there in the Alfonsin era when inflation was almost 20% a day, so I understand the meaning of hell). Do you regret moving to Buenos Aires? If so, why? Is living affordable?

In summary, any feedback on your experiences in Buenos Aires as it is today would really, really help us.

Thanks in advance and I look forward to each and every comment.

 

[sleslie23]

The return of MemoryAtlas.

 

[camberiu]

We are also hungry for culture, as most Brazilians don´t read and have no "senso crítico" so the quality of cultural activities in Brazil is really, really low.

Be careful with these kind of generalizations. Argentinians are cultured indeed. Most taxi drivers know what expressions such as "Sword of Damocles" means and its cultural reference, while 99% of Brazilians would have no idea what the expression means and where it came from. However, I have learned here that being "cultured" has nothing to do with intelligence and critical sense. The same "cultured" Argentinian who can recite poetry and knows a lot about classical Greek drama displays complete ignorance about economics, has a lousy voting record, falling for the most basic and rudimentary populist discourse, and has a crappy work ethic. If Argentinians were as intellectually refined as you seem to think, this country would not have been going through continuous economic crashes since the Alfonsin era.

My questions are: How is your life in Buenos Aires? How does inflation and all the political mess affect your life? (I was there in the Alfonsin era when inflation was almost 20% a day, so I understand the meaning of hell). Do you regret moving to Buenos Aires? If so, why? Is living affordable?

Life here is pure shit. Food is lousy and expensive. There are occasional rationings of certain products (i.e. mate) on the super markets. There are always long lines at the cash registers in the super market, as people buy good in bulk to protect themselves from inflation. Crime rate is high and climbing (see YankeeGallego post). There are always strikes or threat of strikes and the political future looks very uncertain. Services in general are awful, where everyone over charge and under deliver. Infrastructure is crumbling.

Think about everything you hate about Brazil and multiply by three, and you will have Argentina. But yeah, people here are really cultured. They recite Homer as they mug or rape you. It is really nice.

 

[Iznogud]

camberiu, tell me how you REALLY feel about Argentina...

Economics? We don't need no stinkin' economics!

 

[camberiu]

Not a rare occurrence in Buenos Aires these days.

You should definitely come Cipriana, specially if you are bored in Brazil with its 18 continuous years of economic stability and low inflation.

 

[Tangerine]

> Is Argentina a good idea?
in a word NO!

This is no longer the Argentina of your or my youth.
You will be very disappointed.

In short Argentina is spinning around with the last turd in the toilet.

 

[NickBA]

Cipriana...for your own good do not use this forum as a resource when deciding whether or not to move to Argentina. You will find that the responses will be overwhelmingly negative, and when someone finally posts something positive, the abundance of cynics will quickly try to bring them down. Good luck with your decision.

 

[nyer4ever]

Camberiu is correct ... you should be mindful of generalizations.

I lived in Rio for almost 2 years, but prefer Buenos Aires because it is easier for me as a North American. Not only because of the visas, but Buenos Aires is more accustomed to immigrants, whereas Brasil is now really beginning to see a huge boom of immigrants.

The amount of machine guns I saw in Rio makes Buenos Aires feel like Disneyland, and even though BsAs is overpriced it can't compare to Rio which is equal to London now as far as cost.

Your comment about art is a bit off ... Sao Paulo and Berlin are the art capitals of the world. Petropolis, 1 hour outside of Rio, is considered to be a literary mountain metropolis. Have you really paid attention to what is being curated at SESC and Oi Futuro? Really amazing events. Who cares if other people don't get it, you and your wife can go and enjoy it.

Argentina had a HUGE headstart and has a solid foundation for education, culture ...blah blah blah. But the Brasilians are playing catch up ... and doing a great job. Some of the best art exhibitions I have ever seen have been at Centro Cultural Banco do Brasil in Rio ...for FREE.

I've met the man of my dreams here and definitely don't feel as much animosity/curiousity being a foreigner living in Argentina ... but Brasil does have it's strong points.

It's really like comparing Acai to Mate ... you can't ... it's personal preference.

 

[French jurist]

I live here since 2003 and I have adapted myself a lot since I arrived.
In fact, in order to be able to live in Argentina in good conditions, you must be able to adapt quickly to the new situations.

There is indeed inflation, an economical & political crisis, etc. But it's not out of proportions.
Inflation on products, food, etc. is about 20/25%, it was rather 30% during the past years.
Inflation on rentals is much less. It could be around 10% but it depends where you live too.
Inflation on services: private health plans raise 30% or more annually

If you live on a reasonably good income (5/7.000 USD for a single person, 9/12.000 USD for a couple with kids), it's in fact cheaper to live in Argentina than in many other countries, while benefiting from the cultural life you would not find in Peru or Bolivia for instance:
- In the province of Buenos Aires, where you want to go, you can rent a big house, with a large garden & pool for about 600 USD (expensas included).
- One kilo of bife de chorizo is 8 USD.
- 30 eggs are 1.90 USD
- Monthly electric bill is about 20 USD (if you have no AC + only valid in Buenos Aires. Much more expensive in Cordoba)
- Fancy restaurants (the best ones) are about 50/80% cheaper than in Paris or NY, for about the same quality.
- A maid costs 5 USD/hour
- Gasoline is way cheaper than in most of Europe but more expensive than in the US
- Income taxes are cheaper than in most of Europe (at least compared to France)

If you live on a low income made of pesos, then it becomes more tricky:
You will have difficulties changing your pesos for foreign currencies if you wish to travel abroad. Less you have money, more expensive is life (like if a supermarket makes a huge promotion on products, it's harder to stock on them, buying many, etc.). Lower incomes are sometimes not indexed on the inflation.
But it's still doable if you live in the province because life is way cheaper than in CABA.

As for opening a business here, in a city in the province, that's an excellent idea. It's certainly easier (less hassle) than doing it in many other countries. Also, less and less foreigners are interested in coming to Argentina so for those who take the bet to come here, there are more opportunities & it's easier to benefit from your own sociocultural background offering products/services in a new way.

Let's just take one example: opening a restaurant in a city like Pilar (I've found none until now which are really good) would definitely work fine. If I was not already very busy with my activities, I would certainly consider opening a French restaurant... and it would work great! Even during the worst crisis, Argentineans keep on going out & have fun



Living in Argentina is still a great opportunity, but it's not for the fainthearted. Again, it's a question to be able to quickly adapt to new situations here. In other words, you need to act/think a bit like an Argentinean to live here.

As for the negativity on the forum, well, if the peso gets strongly devaluated at some point, I guess we'll hear again how great this country is...

 

[surfing]

I Argentina a good idea?

Five years ago -- YES!

Five years from now -- PROBABLY!

Right at this moment -- Not so much.