Is Argentina Headed Out of the G-20?

[GS_Dirtboy]

New rumblings about a US Congressional proposal to oust Argentina from the G-20 on the basis of' "outlaw behavior." Looks to be a complicated issue, however.

Miami Herald Story

I find it interesting that the G-20 includes 19 major economies plus the EU, where Poland alone has outpaced Argentina in practically all economic metrics.

What do you think about this? Do you think there is reasonable grounds for expelling Argentina from the G-20? What would be the impact on Argentina and related economies if that were accomplished?

 

[solerboy]

I think Argentina should be expelled not because of their behavoir, but simply because they are not a credible force in the global economy.

 

[nicoenarg]

Yup! Kick them out. They're not credible. They do not help the world economy in any way. They demand special status and cry foul when laws are applied to them just like anybody else. They're on G20 because of pity. This is business! Other countries that are economically better should be given a chance.

Argentina is choosing to close its local markets off to the world. The rest of the countries should help Argentina along by closing the world's markets to Argentina. Let them taste their own medicine. These thugs in power here have stolen enough I think.

What's that going to do to Argentina? Other than spooking more investors? Nothing more than what the K's have already done...which is, screw up the economy and bring about another crisis. It might hasten the process a bit I think.

 

[niceguyeddie]

What benefits are there for being a member of the G20?

 

[solerboy]

What benefits are there for being a member of the G20?

Cristina gets to show of her frocks !

 

[gpop]

Yup! Kick them out. They're not credible. They do not help the world economy in any way. They demand special status and cry foul when laws are applied to them just like anybody else. They're on G20 because of pity. This is business! Other countries that are economically better should be given a chance.

Argentina is choosing to close its local markets off to the world. The rest of the countries should help Argentina along by closing the world's markets to Argentina. Let them taste their own medicine. These thugs in power here have stolen enough I think.

What's that going to do to Argentina? Other than spooking more investors? Nothing more than what the K's have already done...which is, screw up the economy and bring about another crisis. It might hasten the process a bit I think.

OK, lets put the blame where the blame is due. The short sited,vote-chasing administration is to blame for their laughable leadership and all the crap they pull. The sheep... I mean people are just following their shepherd. Don't kill the flock if their leader is a flop.

Look at some of the crap that folks have to deal with and the more crap they are fed as truth, or blindsided with that slight-of-hand called 'patriotism'. We complain about some of the stupidities we find here, as outsiders, but the fact is, Argentines have been raised on this and continue to swallow it because a suitable leader in nowhere to be found.

Not that any nation is exempt from bad leadership. So on the one hand, punishing Argentina for misbehaving on the world stage, also punishes those that are just trying to get by from day to day. On the other hand, yup...ya gotta to put the foot down and make an example of them... but again, who is really suffering? Not the k's... I'm sure that they have a verrry big nest egg (one that will beat out any kind of punishment, or patriotism you throw at it).

Will future leadership be any better? Based on the track record, not likely, and certainly not following some short-sighted model like the one presently in use. Will the people of Argentina ever come out of this mire?
Consider adoption of a model that has some measure of success (as stated in this article: Canada or Australia may be a good starting point) and weigh it with attainable goals rather than a quick buck.

A complete shut-out would probably further harden the xenophobia here. Probation might be in order though... something that says "you can stay, but only if you find a suitable leader".

 

[ElQueso]

The problem is similar to that the US has in trying to "establish democracy" in Afghanistan and Iraq. You can try to "liberate" a people (war, economic sanctions, whatever) and maybe even have some success. But you can't force the country to change without changing the people. And you can't do that from the outside. Which means that the people of a nation as a majority have to have the desire and the will to change.

Germany and Japan are probably the most excellent examples of that. Look at the powerhouses their economies are. Outside forces, in those cases, brought about conditions for the countries to change, and they did, but because the people of those countries understood (in various fashions) that they didn't want to be on the dung heap and they were going to do things right.

Sort of extreme examples maybe, and over simplified.

Kicking Argentina out of the G-20 doesn't need to be looked at as a punishment, but rather a result. Keeping them in, to me, is being an enabler.

I understand that the decision to do so could have some impact on Argentina, but I'm not sure how much. The real impact is coming from the actions of the leaders of the country, as has been mentioned. But giving Argentina any kind of crutch when they throw their tantrums and do idiotic, unsustainable things and break trade agreements, et al, why should they be treated as mature members of a global community, when there are other nations who show more maturity?

If it were to have an impact on the people, well, maybe it would light a fire under the peoples' ass? After all, who allows this continue within their own country? The people themselves.

Any talk of using the G-20 and removal therefrom as a punishment is really a weak form of nation-building. I don't like that, personally. Look at it as more a business proposition, which makes more sense as that's what we're talking about in many ways, the functioning of the business (efficient or not, honest or crooked, and all levels in between) of government, or transactions between nations.

I don't want to do business with someone I don't trust. It's not a punishment. I'm not trying to change the other person's ways. I'm just looking out for my business and am intelligent enough to know that doing business with someone you don't trust is a good way to lose something.

Argentina needs a revolution, and it has one right now going on. Cristina is bringing her brand of Peronism. It's another socialist/fascist revolution, relatively peaceful due to an apathetic population who has been accustomed to a country that often barely functions.

Argentina isn't ready for any other kind of revolution. Like many countries, they will have to hit some rock bottom before things really change and either level out and stay there, or a movement ripples through the people en masse that says "enough!"

 

[chris]

In certain respects Japan and Germany did not really change. They always had a strong work ethic and powerful nationalism. These were characteristics necessary to rebuild after the war. With extraordinary help from the United States, they did just that! Argentina lacks both consensus and suffers from decades of Peronism that has eroded attitudes toward work and created a society of extreme entitlement and individualism. Selfish, short term interests take priority in almost every situation.

As for expelling Argentina from the G-20, it seems to me that Argentina is in the process of ousting itself from Planet Earth!

 

[ElQueso]

Yeah, that was my point in comparing Germany and Japan to Argentina - the population itself already wanted something different than what they were headed toward. It's why there was success in making them successful democracies and good economies after having been ruled by dictators and being ruined at the end of a war, in much worse condition (Germany at least) than Argentina has ever been.

 

[el_expatriado]

Argentina is not a serious player on the world stage. Their only interest in foreign policy comes from their domestic political necessities. For this reason alone they should be expelled. They have no serious interest in international issues beyond their own limited domestic considerations.