Is Democracy A Failed System ?

Very Interesting comments from several posters so far
.I'd think the best bet for most of the countries that are already using a democratic system would be to improve and intensify the quality of civic reponsibility taught in our elementary and secomdary schools as well as to make sure that children DO attend school and are taught civics in a way appealing to their likes and needs so that they do indeed take it to heart.
Very possibly if they like what they learned they will remember it and be ready.willing and able to vote when they reach the required age.
I always remember that the definition of the Greek word "idiot· is one who doews not take an interest in their country's affaires.
 
Is the Brexit .... yet another startling proof that Democracy is a failed system?

Not if the Brexit vote isn't binding.

The British government is not a direct democracy.

The referendum passed by a small margin but it still has to be "ratified" by Parliament to become law (though you might not know this from watching CNN's International coverage).

Perhaps we'll soon see how much power the Boys from Brussels really have.
emo32.gif




[background=rgb(241, 243, 242)]Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union establishes the procedures for a member state to withdraw from the EU. It requires the member state to notify the EU of its withdrawal and obliges the EU to then try to negotiate a withdrawal agreement with that state.[/background]

[background=rgb(241, 243, 242)]Britain's "Leave" vote, however, does not represent that formal notification. That notification could take place within days — for example, when EU member countries meet for a summit that is scheduled for June 28 to 29. Or British officials might wait a few months to pull the trigger.[/background]

[background=rgb(241, 243, 242)]Once Britain invokes Article 50, it will have a two-year window in which to negotiate a new treaty to replace the terms of EU membership. Britain and EU leaders would have to hash out issues like trade tariffs, migration, and the regulation of everything from cars to agriculture.[/background]

[background=rgb(241, 243, 242)]http://www.vox.com/2...at-happens-next[/background]
 
I think the last two democratic elections that have had the most impact on me show the problems with democracy. The margin of victory in the Argentine presedential elections and the Brexit are fine enough that I struggle to see either as a fair result. In Argentina it worked out for the better, but still 49% of this country did not want Macri as their president. How many people in the UK voted out of choosing the first thing they read on the paper, or because of a swelling of national pride in the moment, or simply because they have been lied to?

This is rambling in a way because the solution to such close divides is not obvious. Holding the vote again makes little sense, because if it goes the other way then the losing side would call it a draw and demand a third vote.

In the past such politicial and social divides could have ended in civil war. The current situation in the UK is actually fascinating because it truly is a nation divided. A divide between young and old and divided by its borders. I am not sad because the UK is leaving the EU, perhaps all the forecasts of a booming free country will come true and in 10 years we are all laughing at this. I am sad because I feel the world is becoming narrower and people and nations are going back to the old system of us and they.

When borders go up in Europe wars usually happen.
 
Well, this is a weird topic during an administration that is reactionary to the revolution against the Spanish Crown.
 
Well, this is a weird topic during an administration that is reactionary to the revolution against the Spanish Crown.

Is someone currently revolting against the Spanish Crown? Or are you referring to some historical event? Which one?
 
Presidents and prime ministers come into their position as a result of their efficiency as morally uninhibited demagogues. Hence, democracy virtually assures that only dangerous men will rise to the top of government.

... it gives people who only see as far as their nose the chance to change the world.
68% high school drop outs voted OUT. 70% college graduates voted REMAIN.

Here is the whole thing if you care to read:
The God That Failed !
 
I liked the opening paragraph as well:

On the most abstract level, I want to show how theory is indispensible [sic] in correctly interpreting history. History — the sequence of events unfolding in time — is "blind." It reveals nothing about causes and effects. We may agree, for instance, that feudal Europe was poor, that monarchical Europe was wealthier, and that democratic Europe is wealthier still, or that nineteenth-century America with its low taxes and few regulations was poor, while contemporary America with its high taxes and many regulations is rich. Yet was Europe poor because of feudalism, and did it grow richer because of monarchy and democracy? Or did Europe grow richer in spite of monarchy and democracy? Or are these phenomena unrelated?

Given that you quoted Hoppe's LewRockwell.com article touting his book (which I haven't read, but sounds very interesting), I'm not sure how you are interpreting the 68% drop out voting to leave and the 70% graduates voting to stay. It's difficult to support a political exp<b></b>ression favored by high school drop outs when one is trying to make a point in favor of something (most might say that dropouts voting to leave make it obvious that's a bad choice). I, though not a high school drop out, am in favor of the UK leaving the EU, as well as the other countries in time.

In fact, given the paragraph from Hoppe's article that I quoted (which I very fundamentally agree with), I would say that the college graduates have incorrectly analyzed the past, with meme filters that provide a blindness to reality of the historical data, and perhaps they feel that continuing with a political behemoth made up of disparate political and economic entities is a way to wealth as described over the past century or two (kind of like what Bush tried to do in Iraq, though the two examples are too different to really compare). Whereas I say it has all happened in spite of such restrictions on freedom.

I'm not sure why the dropouts would vote for leaving, aside from maybe a larger majority of them are "on the dole" and fear that the siphoning of money from the country towards the poorer of Europe's citizens might cause them problems, or perhaps they are truly xenophobic as a majority and bought into the problem with Muslim immigrants spreading throughout Europe, which has some very real aspects to it.

I do feel somewhat sure that most college graduates are probably taught nowadays that government = Good, bigger government = Better and total control for everyone's own good = Best (I once found an old '40s Sears catalogue in an abandoned house when I was a teenager and items were sold in grades like that - Good, Better and Best :) not important to my point, I just thought it was neat). It would not surprise me that college graduates fear that the leaving of the UK and the possible future dissolving of the EU would be catastrophic. After all, aren't most places of higher education often funded in some manner by governments, even if they are a private institution? And if we know anything about governments at all, we know they are very interested in their own survival, always beyond that of the survival of individuals or groups of their own citizens. And most should know that organizations such as those of higher learning are rarely the type of organizations to stand in the face of pressure from their benefactors and teach the opposite of what those benefactors require.

I've mentioned in this forum previously that I believe the US should break up into smaller countries. I'm betting pretty much everyone knows my take on the US Civil War and how it was probably the worst thing Lincoln could have done for the future of the country as a whole (i.e., not just for the "white masters"). I consider myself a patriot - I truly do. I absolutely am fascinated with the Revolution, the reasons behind it and the mechanics of it and the way it came into being and thrived - and most of all the men and women involved. They were absolutely brilliant, even the Federalists with whom I entirely disagree.

We now have a tyranny that affects, percentage-wise, more people on this planet than the British Empire did 240 years ago when those brilliant men rebelled against King George. The EU could be on the way to a similar mega-state as well. I think if George Washington could see the current state of the US he'd think similarly to me. I think if he saw Europe joined under the current union he'd think the world gone mad.
 
Well, this is a weird topic during an administration that is reactionary to the revolution against the Spanish Crown.
Not sure why you would think that. It doesn't matter to one's belief who is currently in power, as to what one believes in - or at least, it shouldn't.

Many of us, myself included, preferred that Macri be in office rather than Scioli. PErsonally, I wanted that because I believe he will do less long-term damage than Cristina.

We certainly have different reasons to want Macri than you have for wanting Scioli. The very fact that you 1) obviously equate Peron's "revolution" against the Spanish Crown as being the only correct way to revolt (and funny that Peron wasn't exactly democratic) and that 2) Scioli would "continue" Peron's policies (as if Cristina had anything to do with "continuing the revolution against the Spanish Crown" jajaja) tells me despite all protestations to the opposite you seem to be very much a pro-"K" at best, a mis-guided Peronist at worst.

But no matter our preferences, those of us who believe that democracy is a failure are not saying that a "Crown" is better.

So really, not sure what your point was...
 
Hi,
Yes, maybe democracy is outdated (at least, as it was originally conceived) ....but still so much better than authoritarian state leaders (or chaos?).
Found this at CNN, from GOP Hugh Hewit... hope it's "food for thought"...!

http://edition.cnn.c...acement-hewitt/
I read this and it seems to me to be a lot of Republican posturing more than anything. Truth is, I am a big believer in the concept of a mandate via voting results, but it's not the law. I'm having a hard time thinking that Obama is completely without an ethical right to nominate an appointment. It would be about a year since Scalia died before the next president could really begin to start the nomination process. Depending on how the congressional elections go, the nomination could be held up for some time as well beyond that.

We don't know who's going to win the elections. Therefore, to me, it's a bit difficult to say that the Democrats don't have a right to nominate a replacement. And we're still some time out from the elections. Also, the Constitution doesn't give the president the right to place a Justice, but rather to nominate with the final approval of Congress, which is sort of like a joint task and not a presidential right. With the GOP in control of Congress at the moment, seems to me that they have control on whether or not Obama is successful at getting a severely leftist-leaning justice in place.

While I agree with some of what Hewitt says, I don't think his insulting of Senator Heller is all that good. He may have another reason for feeling the way he does about the senator (which he doesn't discuss), but the truth is the way he berates him over this one thing makes it seem more like a "you're not towing the line" rather than "you are not an admirable person."
 
Back
Top