Is It Better To Be Fired Or To Quit?

[ARbound]

Hi Everyone,

As some of you may know I moved to Argentina about a year ago and it took awhile, but I finally got a job. The job of course is not a good one, working at a call center, which means low pay, 45 hours a week and now I have to move on.

I tried to end things amicably with the company but they will only let me leave if I quit or am fired for say not showing up, or showing up and not doing any work, etc.

It's a terrible company, and I want to leave for several reasons, but mainly it is because I'm not being paid for some of the work I'm doing and because I had my job changed with the understanding several months ago it would remain that way (other wise I would have quit) and now it is being changed again, and I've been told by management that it is the way it is and I can fight them legally over it if I want but since they didn't give it to me in writing I have no case.

Long story short, we have a union, a lazy inactive one of course, so there is a set of rules on how to fire someone.

What I want to know is in Argentina, is it better for me to quit or to drag this out until they fire me?

I have no savings and my only income is from this job and in the meantime, like everyone else, I've been struggling to find another job. If I am fired do I qualify for anything from ANSES while I look for another job or no because I'm on a work DNI and was fired?

I need another job ASAP but since it has been an unfruitful pursuit so far my worry is that I'm going to go broke while struggling to find something to just cover my rent let alone food/bills.

Any advise or suggestions are appreciated (except telling me to go "home", I'm not going to the embassy for a plane ticket only to go live in a homeless shelter, I don't really have a family, and I don't have any friends with somewhere to let me stay while looking for a job so that option isn't one I'm going to look at).

 

[Matiasba]

I used to work in a call center back in 2005. We had a problem with the company and we went to the union (SUP Sindicato Unico de la Publicidad). In those days, there werent legislation about "encuestadores telefonicos", the legislation covered only the people that made polls in the streets. Because of this, they had to reverse, and answered our petitions, they had no choice.

This was in August 2005.

Afterwards, in December, with a negotiation with the sindicate, they created those categories, and they took us rights away, all companies had a meeting, and with the consent of the Union, created new legislation.

So I wont suggest you to go against them. They have all covered up. Brand new legislation with the complicity of the union, If you get fired with good reasons you wont get indemnizacion, but if you geet fired without a reason then you ll have a reward.

 

[sleslie23]

Maybe I am misunderstanding your predicament, but if you have no savings or family/friend support, wouldn't quitting/getting fired be the worst possible scenario? A good rule of thumb is never quit a job until you have a new one lined up, no matter how bad the current one is. That goes double if you don't have a means of supporting yourself until you get a new one. I'm not busting your balls, just not sure if I understood you.

Regarding your question, I'm not sure how much you would get if they fired you since you still have a temporary DNI. Even if the union could help you out, it wouldn't amount to much since you've only been there a year. If you'd been there 10, then it would be a different story.

And if our old friend candela/naty is still with us, let this be a word to the wise about how tough living in Argentina can be.

 

[pitipur]

I have to agree that I think your best bet is to stick it out until you find something new, especially if your DNI is from the company you work for - I dont know the law either but I would imagine a work DNI is void once you no longer work for the company that sponsored you, so I'd be surprised if you would receive anything even if you were fired by the company. And a grim job that pays the bills is better than not being able to make rent (well, at least in the short term, but I can see how this could change over a long period of time).

 

[ARbound]

I know a job is better than none, but it's at the point where I've been told that they won't fire me without cause "because they don't have the money" and that cause is been looked for since they know I want to leave and a bunch of petty stuff is happening that makes it very uncomfortable to be there now.

Now I'm just trying to figure out what to do to screw myself over the least.

And yes sleslie, like I've said since moving here, I wish I would have listened to you guys before changing my life.

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

I would agree with the advice to never leave your job until you have another lined up. All jobs have BS, and unpleasant petty stuff. However, in my experience of being on the management side even if you are fired for cause you can still take the company to court and get a nice settlement. That's the employee lottery here.

If what you want is to go back to the US I believe the State Department has a program to repatriate US citizens that are destitute. One of the benefits of having a US passport.

Good luck!

 

[JoeGillis]

Hi Everyone,

As some of you may know I moved to Argentina about a year ago and it took awhile, but I finally got a job. The job of course is not a good one, working at a call center, which means low pay, 45 hours a week and now I have to move on.

I tried to end things amicably with the company but they will only let me leave if I quit or am fired for say not showing up, or showing up and not doing any work, etc.

It's a terrible company, and I want to leave for several reasons, but mainly it is because I'm not being paid for some of the work I'm doing and because I had my job changed with the understanding several months ago it would remain that way (other wise I would have quit) and now it is being changed again, and I've been told by management that it is the way it is and I can fight them legally over it if I want but since they didn't give it to me in writing I have no case.

Long story short, we have a union, a lazy inactive one of course, so there is a set of rules on how to fire someone.

What I want to know is in Argentina, is it better for me to quit or to drag this out until they fire me?

I have no savings and my only income is from this job and in the meantime, like everyone else, I've been struggling to find another job. If I am fired do I qualify for anything from ANSES while I look for another job or no because I'm on a work DNI and was fired?

I need another job ASAP but since it has been an unfruitful pursuit so far my worry is that I'm going to go broke while struggling to find something to just cover my rent let alone food/bills.

Any advise or suggestions are appreciated (except telling me to go "home", I'm not going to the embassy for a plane ticket only to go live in a homeless shelter, I don't really have a family, and I don't have any friends with somewhere to let me stay while looking for a job so that option isn't one I'm going to look at).

Would you be interested in teaching English with a language institute in BA? If so, send me a PM for further details.

 

[germano]

Honestly I do not understand why you stay in Buenos Aires if you hate Argentina so much. You can move to another country with little money (bus, bike, motorbike). There is couch surfing to find a place to stay for a couple of days and meet locals. I have hosted many travelers with cs and met people traveling around the world with a few bucks. If you want to you can make it possible.

 

[PhilipDT]

Maybe I am misunderstanding your predicament, but if you have no savings or family/friend support, wouldn't quitting/getting fired be the worst possible scenario?

Not in Argentina. If they fire him they need to pay him severance which is usually worth over a month's salary and can be worth several depending on how long he's held his job.



The following advice goes against my deep dislike of the overly litigious culture here. (side note: I always think its hilarious when people mention this as a reason they prefer Argentina to their home country.

It's a terrible company, and I want to leave for several reasons, but mainly it is because I'm not being paid for some of the work I'm doing and because I had my job changed with the understanding several months ago it would remain that way (other wise I would have quit) and now it is being changed again, and I've been told by management that it is the way it is and I can fight them legally over it if I want but since they didn't give it to me in writing I have no case.

They are completely 100% bluffing. It maybe difficult to prove, it may not be hard to prove but if the actually did tell you that they'd pay you and you did the work then they are in violation of contract. This makes the amount of severance you would be entitled to significantly higher. Not to mention if you feel like they're trying to exploit you due to your status as a foreigner, they could be liable for that as well since that is a protected class.

Talk to a labor lawyer right away. Almost all will work on contingency; this is because if you sue your employer and the court decides against you, your lawyer still will get his fees. 'From whom?', you might might ask. From your employer. Even if you sue and loose the employer has to pay your (and their) legal costs.

Most cases won't go to court, in Capital there is a mandatory mediation that must be attended by both parties before going to court (this is the case if you're fired, I'm not positive if you're just suing for unpaid salaries). This is where they will try and buy you off. You should ask for a significant premium on the unpaid wages which you'll probably get.

Once you start a legal process against them, heaven help them if they fire you.

Disclaimer: I'm not a labor lawyer or any kind of lawyer. My principal recommendation is that you first and foremost talk to a lawyer, after that I would recommend asking the moderator to remove this thread.

 

[Joe]

I would agree with the advice to never leave your job until you have another lined up. All jobs have BS, and unpleasant petty stuff. However, in my experience of being on the management side even if you are fired for cause you can still take the company to court and get a nice settlement. That's the employee lottery here.

If what you want is to go back to the US I believe the State Department has a program to repatriate US citizens that are destitute. One of the benefits of having a US passport.

Good luck!

He's not a Yanqui, he's a Canuck.