Is It Time to Bail Out of the US?

[jedard]

I wonder why so many Argentinians have such a hidden distaste for the IOUSA. What caused this for them to be so rigid. Even Christina has a hidden passion for the IOUSA.

I have talked to many people here posing the question, what do you think of the IOUSA. Note I did not ask what do you think of Americans.
As for the contribution the IOUSA has made over the last 300 years? They sure as hell do not amount to a hill of beans when you look at the devastation they have caused in so many countries via the CIA.

And, following that, they then rush in to provide financial assistance at a great price through the IMF, which they control.
All said and done, History does repeat itself. And now the IOUSA has put their skill at destroying countries right into their own heart. Three cheers for them.

When this financial crisis which the IOUSA created out of stupid greed and wild spending, the IOUSA will never recover. Not even your great grand-children will be able to pay back what irresponsible present day financial decisions has taken place.

Just take for example the looming court case of Lehman's and the BofA. Thank God for some honest Judges! This is a real first hand look at Absolute Power above and beyond the legal system.

Sorry, I do not feel one bit of shame in putting the blame where it all started with a small flame.

I have relatives that predate back to 1610 in the IOUSA and I have many friends still there. My arguments are against the inane polices and decisions of the policy makers not the ordinary hard working citizens who are being asked to pay for all this.

When this is all over, the IOUSA will be and probably for many years to come, remain as the mightiest military power on earth.

 

[Recoleta Carolina]

Paul Craig Roberts pointed out, in an essay going back a month or two, that if we counted unemployed by the the 1980 criteria, we'd have an unemployment rate of 17.5%. The official figures are as meaningless as the number of shoes produced in Orwell's Oceania.

The statistics are also meaningless because once a person stops receiving unemployment benefits they are no longer included in the number of unemployed. So, even if they are unemployed and looking for a job, officially they are not included in the figures.

 

[bigbadwolf]

The statistics are also meaningless because once a person stops receiving unemployment benefits they are no longer included in the number of unemployed. So, even if they are unemployed and looking for a job, officially they are not included in the figures.

As I understand it, the official unemployment figure is known as "E3," and what used to be the official unemployment figure (i.e., before they started tampering with the stats) is now "E6." Many commentators now use E6 to get a better handle on what's happening in the US world of work.

The confusion -- deliberately engineered -- occurs when the official unemployment figure is bandied about. *Gasp* -- one in ten workers is now out of work. Whereas it would be truer to say that one in five workers is now out of work.

Official statistics -- whether relating to unemployment, inflation, or "growth" -- have simply become meaningless, and their function is to obfuscate and confuse rather than enlighten.

 

[Matt84]

Doomsayers.... America and the World has already been in this situation. I'm not even talking of the 1930s, but of the mid 80s. But even if we took the example of the Crack, the Depression, and the "New Deal", the lesson remains the same:
Politicians will prolongue the crisis through and for the purpose of creating new gov agencies, but only to a point, the free market wont be locked up, no one wants to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.
Citizens will bear, then overcome the situation and eventually invent or grasp new technologies that turn farmers into coders. (althoguh I'd much rather be a farmer)

Yesterday however I thought of something scary. Where are all the Bush-bashers going to go after the Obama deception? I strongly doubt they'll turn Libertarians. Maybe if all the conspiracy theories are pipedreams, someone will then try to turn those fantasies into reality and form a new Third Party. Remember a certain movement in Germany was fueled both by economic and military depresion, AND by a Conspiracy pamphlet: The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

But that's just the doomsayers getting to me. America is not just another country, not just another power. It's humankind 2.0. It's a way of life, a way of valuing life, that is not exclusive to its actual government and its actual borders.

 

[mini]

But that's just the doomsayers getting to me. America is not just another country, not just another power. It's humankind 2.0. It's a way of life, a way of valuing life, that is not exclusive to its actual government and its actual borders.

Huh? Now this you've got to explain.

 

[bigbadwolf]

Huh? Now this you've got to explain.

American exceptionalism, in a nutshell. Which the rest of the world, being unenlightened, interprets as American chauvinism and hubris.

 

[Matt84]

American exceptionalism, in a nutshell. Which the rest of the world, being unenlightened, interprets as American chauvinism and hubris.

Damn Right! Only that I almoast interpret it as New World exceptionalism. I include all of the Americas and Australia.

For me the conflict is between Old World and their indigenous protectionist movements, and the New World with the to chance to start a new life, over and over, characterized by constant migrations, motion, risk, and freedom. I see the movement of people back and forthh North and South of the Border as a very healthy trade off.

If the U.S. did not exist, I'd call it Brazilian exceptionalism, but the U.S. does exist, its Constitution made history, and its inventions continue to do so.

And I find rational or at least comprehensible reasons to see how America developed into being a kind of Civ 2.0, it has nothing to do with a Godly Manifest Destiny nor patriotism - since again, I'm not a citizen, I'm legally Italian.

 

[RWS]

It's been said that the United States form the only nation to have been embodied by ideas, rather than race. Though the underlying concepts are a bit more complex (I think that I've posted on them, probably in this thread), the result is not: subscribe to the ideas, and you (or, at least, your children) can become an American in reality, not just legally.

An example: I, the descendant of European settlers in the New World, might fall in love with East Indian (or Serbian, or Iranian, or Senegalese) culture and move to India. I might even be permitted to become a citizen of India. But I'd never be accepted as "Indian", because I'm not ethno-racially "Indian". By contrast, were I an immigrant to the United States, even from other than the States' mother country, England, I could be accepted both legally and socially, because subscription to the contract which binds the society together is open to all.

As "Matt84" has pointed out, the United States are no longer alone in this: Australia, New Zealand, and many a new state in the Americas now are similar. It's simply that the States were first.

 

[jp]

I'm not sure how well that holds up in practice.

Colin Powell's comments on Obama's religious beliefs spring to mind:

“Well the correct answer, he is not a Muslim. He’s a Christian, he’s always been a Christian. But the really right answer is ‘what if he is?’ Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer is no, that’s not America.”

Its not america on paper, but try telling that to the millions of people terrified by the prospect that obama might be a muslim.

 

[bigbadwolf]

I'm not sure how well that holds up in practice.

Colin Powell's comments on Obama's religious beliefs spring to mind:

“Well the correct answer, he is not a Muslim. He’s a Christian, he’s always been a Christian. But the really right answer is ‘what if he is?’ Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer is no, that’s not America.”

Its not america on paper, but try telling that to the millions of people terrified by the prospect that obama might be a muslim.

A moslem name (like mine) means the authorities (like immigration and customs, for example) check a bit more vigorously. In reality it's not the same at all.