Is It Time to Bail Out of the US?
- Thread starter bigbadwolf
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"Things have changed so much," said a colleague yesterday. "We've been telling readers that they could live so much more cheaply overseas. But now, about the cheapest place in the world to live is the US..."
We spent Sunday with the publisher of International Living magazine.
"Prices have fallen so much in Florida that you really get more for your money there than practically anywhere else," she continued.
"I think Florida may be cheaper than Buenos Aires," added son Will, who's been living in Argentina for the last three years.
Housing is cheap in the United States. In Texas and Arkansas, housing is probably the best bargain on the planet. Food prices are going up; still food in the US is much cheaper than it is in Europe. And cars? We have a friend in Paris who goes back to the US to buy his Mercedes. Even with the cost of shipping the car back to France...and the cost of refitting the car to European standards...he still saves about $10,000.
From Bill Bonner and family
We spent Sunday with the publisher of International Living magazine.
"Prices have fallen so much in Florida that you really get more for your money there than practically anywhere else," she continued.
"I think Florida may be cheaper than Buenos Aires," added son Will, who's been living in Argentina for the last three years.
Housing is cheap in the United States. In Texas and Arkansas, housing is probably the best bargain on the planet. Food prices are going up; still food in the US is much cheaper than it is in Europe. And cars? We have a friend in Paris who goes back to the US to buy his Mercedes. Even with the cost of shipping the car back to France...and the cost of refitting the car to European standards...he still saves about $10,000.
From Bill Bonner and family
Ries
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Whoever Bill Bonner is, he is welcome to move to Texas (?) or, even better, Arkansas (??).
but to say Buenos Aires is more expensive than Miami? thats a bit of a stretch.
Here are some recent home prices-
http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/hous...2008&sortby=city&orderby=normal&action=Submit
Average home in Miami is listed at $295,000.
Somehow, I think you can still beat that in BA.
Average home price in the Seattle Area, where I live when I am in el norte, is $419,000.
There is no doubt there are cheap places in the USA. But to compare them it Buenos Aires is kinda apples and oranges.
If ALL you care about is, as Frank Zappa used to say, "Cheapniz", then there is always someplace cheaper. I have no doubt that if you are willing to forego useless luxuries like the rule of law, medical care, electrical service, and personal safety, there are islands in Indonesia, or beautiful beaches in sub-Saharan Africa, where you can live for virtually nothing.
There are definitely deals to be had in West Armpit, Arkansas, and many other places with no jobs, no culture, no public transportation, and a populace with a sixth grade education. In some parts of the upper midwest,you can buy an entire town for what an apartment costs in Recoleta.
Send us a postcard when you get there, though.
Your want list is going to include a few more things than just peanut butter, I would guess.
but to say Buenos Aires is more expensive than Miami? thats a bit of a stretch.
Here are some recent home prices-
http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/hous...2008&sortby=city&orderby=normal&action=Submit
Average home in Miami is listed at $295,000.
Somehow, I think you can still beat that in BA.
Average home price in the Seattle Area, where I live when I am in el norte, is $419,000.
There is no doubt there are cheap places in the USA. But to compare them it Buenos Aires is kinda apples and oranges.
If ALL you care about is, as Frank Zappa used to say, "Cheapniz", then there is always someplace cheaper. I have no doubt that if you are willing to forego useless luxuries like the rule of law, medical care, electrical service, and personal safety, there are islands in Indonesia, or beautiful beaches in sub-Saharan Africa, where you can live for virtually nothing.
There are definitely deals to be had in West Armpit, Arkansas, and many other places with no jobs, no culture, no public transportation, and a populace with a sixth grade education. In some parts of the upper midwest,you can buy an entire town for what an apartment costs in Recoleta.
Send us a postcard when you get there, though.
Your want list is going to include a few more things than just peanut butter, I would guess.
citygirl
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Well, I actually wouldn't disagree that Florida is probably cheaper than Argentina, esp if you factor in the ability to get a mortgage. It's a buyer's market when it comes to real estate in Miami.
I'm still trying to figure out why people think BsAs is such a bargain. Granted, I'm not complaining b/c it's a whole lot cheaper than NYC but still, I would put costs on par/above any mid-sized American city.
I'm still trying to figure out why people think BsAs is such a bargain. Granted, I'm not complaining b/c it's a whole lot cheaper than NYC but still, I would put costs on par/above any mid-sized American city.
Ries
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Who says its a bargain?
And to whom is CHEAP the supreme measuring stick?
Everybody I know from North America that has bought a place in Buenos Aires did it because they LIKE Buenos Aires for what it is. Not because its so cheap.
If, however, like me, your principal residence in the USA is a place that still has jobs, and hence, high property values, like, say, Northwest Washington- well, compared to here, Buenos Aires IS cheap.
The average house in Seattle is over $400,000. There is virtually nothing in a condo available for under $250,000, and anything under $400,000 is tiny, cheaply built, and new.
Compared to that, a nice old apartment in Barrio Norte or Recoleta is still a screaming deal, and a place off the beaten track, in Coughlin or Chacarita, is about what you would pay for a parking space in Seattle.
But CHEAP only draws cheap people. And the cheap college kid crowd moves on, constantly. They were all in Prague 15 years ago, when it was dirt cheap. There was a time when Phuket was bamboo huts for ten bucks a week and you could live on a hundred dollars a month- and now, its resort hotels owned by multinationals, with package tours flying in. Bali used to be cheap- now Mick Jagger pays a couple grand a night for a bungalow. Hell, when my dad was in college, in the late 40's, PARIS WAS CHEAP.
Just because Paris isnt cheap anymore, doesnt mean people still dont want to live there, because, well, its Paris, for chrissake.
Frankly, I will be just as happy when Buenos Aires loses the reputation of being cheap- loud obnoxious college kids drinking endless rounds and complaining about the lack of cheap I-pods, I can easily live without.
The things I like about Buenos Aires will still be here when they move on- the art, the architecture, the history, the unique blend of european and south american culture, the food, the landscape, the odd old stuff that is still here, cause it was too expensive to ship away, and, most of all, the people.
I have a lot of Argentine friends, smart, saavy, hardworking creative people who are fashion designers, architects, artists, writers, and teachers- and they will still be here, doing interesting stuff, when the city no longer attracts all those 24 hour party people.
And to whom is CHEAP the supreme measuring stick?
Everybody I know from North America that has bought a place in Buenos Aires did it because they LIKE Buenos Aires for what it is. Not because its so cheap.
If, however, like me, your principal residence in the USA is a place that still has jobs, and hence, high property values, like, say, Northwest Washington- well, compared to here, Buenos Aires IS cheap.
The average house in Seattle is over $400,000. There is virtually nothing in a condo available for under $250,000, and anything under $400,000 is tiny, cheaply built, and new.
Compared to that, a nice old apartment in Barrio Norte or Recoleta is still a screaming deal, and a place off the beaten track, in Coughlin or Chacarita, is about what you would pay for a parking space in Seattle.
But CHEAP only draws cheap people. And the cheap college kid crowd moves on, constantly. They were all in Prague 15 years ago, when it was dirt cheap. There was a time when Phuket was bamboo huts for ten bucks a week and you could live on a hundred dollars a month- and now, its resort hotels owned by multinationals, with package tours flying in. Bali used to be cheap- now Mick Jagger pays a couple grand a night for a bungalow. Hell, when my dad was in college, in the late 40's, PARIS WAS CHEAP.
Just because Paris isnt cheap anymore, doesnt mean people still dont want to live there, because, well, its Paris, for chrissake.
Frankly, I will be just as happy when Buenos Aires loses the reputation of being cheap- loud obnoxious college kids drinking endless rounds and complaining about the lack of cheap I-pods, I can easily live without.
The things I like about Buenos Aires will still be here when they move on- the art, the architecture, the history, the unique blend of european and south american culture, the food, the landscape, the odd old stuff that is still here, cause it was too expensive to ship away, and, most of all, the people.
I have a lot of Argentine friends, smart, saavy, hardworking creative people who are fashion designers, architects, artists, writers, and teachers- and they will still be here, doing interesting stuff, when the city no longer attracts all those 24 hour party people.
citygirl
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I'm not sure if your last post was directed towards me Ries but I was commenting on an earlier post about cost of living in Buenos Aires being a bargain.
I certainly didn't say it is the only reason to live here, and in fact, my point was that if someone was coming here because it's "cheap" - there are a lot less expensive options elsewhere.
I don't know - maybe it's my experience here, but I don't find anything a bargain and I can't imagine how people survive here on limited budgets. Clothes are expensive (and not great quality). Electronics are expensive. Going out is expensive. Even food is getting expensive.
Yes, housing prices are still cheaper than most major cities in the US but if you factor in the impossibility of a mortgage here, I'd say it's still more difficult to save up enough to buy a house here than it is in the US.
YMMV - just my experience living here for a few years.
I certainly didn't say it is the only reason to live here, and in fact, my point was that if someone was coming here because it's "cheap" - there are a lot less expensive options elsewhere.
I don't know - maybe it's my experience here, but I don't find anything a bargain and I can't imagine how people survive here on limited budgets. Clothes are expensive (and not great quality). Electronics are expensive. Going out is expensive. Even food is getting expensive.
Yes, housing prices are still cheaper than most major cities in the US but if you factor in the impossibility of a mortgage here, I'd say it's still more difficult to save up enough to buy a house here than it is in the US.
YMMV - just my experience living here for a few years.
pericles said:
I'd agree at some point but look carefully who owns most of the "bullioned" Gold. Secondly, not every country and not every province within that country may dig-up some gold or silver to sustain.
Majority of people are not investors bc some other "investors", who already claimed these sits. Plus, when the Gold and Silver already largely in someone's private hands, who's going to get and what?
There is nothing wrong to have some sort of domestic currency for as long as it controlled by Government, not by Private Fiscal Agency (Federal Reserve).
If the Government has in its disposal this much properties or precious metals to cover their emission - nothing will be wrong with paper, cotton or plywood bills. My humble opinion.
I think if someone will come to Nebraska (yes folks, there is a State with such name) or North Dakota, Mississippi (??) will find even grater bargains. I think somewhere in these states local landlords willing to pay you to get the property to receive some tax break at least. (kidding)jedard said:
pericles said:
I'd agree at some point but look carefully who owns most of the "bullioned" Gold. Secondly, not every country and not every province within that country may dig-up some gold or silver to sustain.
Majority of people are not investors bc some other "investors", who already claimed these sits. Plus, when the Gold and Silver already largely in someone's private hands, who's going to get and what?
There is nothing wrong to have some sort of domestic currency for as long as it controlled by Government, not by Private Fiscal Agency (Federal Reserve).
If the Government has in its disposal this much properties or precious metals to cover their emission - nothing will be wrong with paper, cotton or plywood bills. My humble opinion.