is this the right time to buy a flat in Argentina?

[GS_Dirtboy]

I'll let someone else tackle the math corrections. However, if buyer and seller have accounts outside of Argentina it's a non-issue.

 

[earlyretirement]

I'll let someone else tackle the math corrections. However, if buyer and seller have accounts outside of Argentina it's a non-issue.

Exactly. I'm selling a small apartment in Palermo and I've negotiated the buyer to pay me $20,000 of the boleto in cash, which my wife and I will carry back with us on the plane. The balance of the boleto will be wired to our bank in the USA.

Then at the closing the buyer is wiring us directly to our USA account in dollars.

It's not going to cost us a cent to get the funds for either the boleto or the escritura. You just have to get creative with with how you get paid.

Most of the transactions are happening that way now. I have several friends that sold recently and they all are getting paid that way.

 

[cbphoto]

So what happens when they want to re-sell the property? The Argentine legal financial trail of how much it was sold for, how much bought for and where the funds (legally) came from..

 

[cbphoto]

seems you might still be able to "get away with it" now... but what if the Gov gets more wise... trying to get every penny from every transaction. Maybe ..just maybe not the best place (public forum) to discuss your ways around the system?

 

[earlyretirement]

seems you might still be able to "get away with it" now... but what if the Gov gets more wise... trying to get every penny from every transaction. Maybe ..just maybe not the best place (public forum) to discuss your ways around the system?

It's not my problem worrying about how/what the buyer will do in the future. Or how they will justify bringing in the funds. That will be their problem.

MANY people are doing transactions like this so me posting or not posting about it isn't going to change too much.

I'm fairly sure the government knows people are doing this. They aren't stupid...they just act like they are...

 

[earlyretirement]

So what happens when they want to re-sell the property? The Argentine legal financial trail of how much it was sold for, how much bought for and where the funds (legally) came from..

Remember on the escritura (title deed) it says the buyer paid in cash at the closing. And sellers just make the buyer wire the funds first so there isn't any risk on the seller's side. But the buyer has to really trust the seller in this kind of situation.

But as far as the government is concerned, IMHO, they shouldn't care because they will be making 2.5% stamp taxes (between the buyer and seller) and 1.5% transfer taxes by the seller. Plus the 21% IVA on the realtor's fee plus the 21% IVA on the escribano's fee.

But the seller really won't care what happens to the potential buyer or how they declare they got the funds into the country, etc. That is their problem.

 

[cbphoto]

Well the seller might not care..but the experienced buyer will think about these things. As someone who is very experienced in buying/selling several properties over the years... in more than one country, under varying circumstances, laws, etc... I find the risk to profit ratio a no brainer. I thought of investing in Argentina a couple years ago... one of the best decisions I have made was not to!

 

[earlyretirement]

Well the seller might not care..but the experienced buyer will think about these things. As someone who is very experienced in buying/selling several properties over the years... in more than one country, under varying circumstances, laws, etc... I find the risk to profit ratio a no brainer. I thought of investing in Argentina a couple years ago... one of the best decisions I have made was not to!

Oh no doubt cbphoto. I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I also own real estate in 5 different countries and I always take the time to do everything the right way. That always avoids problems when you go to sell. So definitely I agree with what you are saying.

I agree the risk/reward ratio for real estate Argentina at today's prices (or even a few years ago) isn't for everyone. You have to have really thick skin to deal with all the problems in Argentina.

From all the insane taxes and fees, to internet/cable/phone going out sometimes for days/weeks at a time. Electricity or gas problems, water leak problems from neighbors, 30% yearly inflation, and many other potential problems.

No way I would continue owning real estate there if my in-laws didn't live there and watch over my properties. Without having someone trustworthy watching over your property in Argentina, you can really get screwed.

I have some very close friends that have their apartments managed in Buenos Aires by a large company and they were shocked to learn that their bills haven't been paid in months! In a few properties the electricity and gas were even shut off for non payment. Another client said that his condo bills weren't paid in 3 months!

The key is having someone trustworthy or things can go very very wrong in Argentina. Totally agree with you cbphoto.

 

[ghost]

My advice was directed at the OP who is on the buy side of the equation and will certainly have to deal with exit problems later. Plus any and all of the ensuing bullshit that happens in between like taxes, mgmt. fees, bad tenants and etc. As he said, he's only here for brief periods and would require interim management. Considering his criteria I see it as a potentially bad deal at the moment.

 

[mariano-BCN]

thanks Ghost, Earlyretirement, cbphoto and others, very good & accurate info!
Indeed: I won't buy now. I've the time so I'll wait until the prices really come down like ten years ago.
cheers