Job Offer

[simonmicheal]

If 1500 dollars a month is not a good wage and I would find it hard to live or save after paying half or more on rental, then how do all the supposedly 50,000 or more expats currently living in argentina survive? They all must have good paying jobs! or does every expat need to make a sacrifice to live in argentina? I'm a computer programmer and I would be taking a paycut of half my normal salary in the UK to move to argentina.

 

[steveinbsas]

If 1500 dollars a month is not a good wage and I would find it hard to live or save after paying half or more on rental, then how do all the supposedly 50,000 or more expats currently living in argentina survive? They all must have good paying jobs! or does every expat need to make a sacrifice to live in argentina? I'm a computer programmer and I would be taking a paycut of half my normal salary in the UK to move to argentina.

If you have never been here before, it will take a giant leap of faith to come here to live. You may take more than a cut in pay if you move to Argentina. You may also take a cut in your "standard of living" compared to the UK, though you will be able to get good (private) health care here (including dental).

If there really are 50,000 expats living in Argentina, many of them are not living in Buenos Aires and I imagine the turnover rate is high, especially during the first two years. I don't know how many of them are working, but I would imagine it is far less than half (just a hunch).

As I said in a previous post, you might love it here, but you might hate it, too. BA is relatively dangerous, dirty and noisy compared to London with only a small fraction of culture by comparison. I strongly advise that you have a plan to return to the UK after six months or a year in BA if you don't like living here.

$1500 dollars a month is a relatively high wage here compared to "average" Argentines who are paid in pesos and also must pay taxes. Few "average" Argentines, however, live alone or with strangers. Many "average" Argentines also have more than one job.

Do you consider taking a paycut of 50% which may also entail a downgrade in your standard of living as a good career move? Unless you already have a love for life in Argentina which compels you to make the move, I suggest you come for a visit before making your decision.

 

[perry]

What constitutes an expat is another interesting topic but the amount of foreigners who live here and make a decent salary in Buenos Aires are few .
Saying that Argentina and Buenos Aires offer an incredible lifestyle for those who are independently wealthy but for those who believe that you can move here and make your killing the road aint dripping with honey .

 

[steveinbsas]

I've been doing a bit of research... finding a cheap apartment will be difficult as in any city but I know 2 bed apartments in the city center exist for around 300 US a month as my friend who owns one rents it out for that price. So that leaves me with 1200 US a month to play around with?

Check out the thread:

Small studio for rent near the Obelisco $399/month!

Here's a great example of a cheap apartment in the center. It's tiny and cheaper than most comparable apartments as it is appears to be offered by the owner. Agencies would typically charge at least 10% more per month. The location in the city center is anything but a tranquil residencial setting.

Here's a link to one of many of agencies renting temporary apartments:
http://www.4rentargentina.com/
A studio in Recoleta (same size as the one on Cerrito but in a far more desirable area) is offered at $549 per month: http://www.4rentargentina.com/buenos-aires-apartments/recoleta/azcuenaga-and-guido-2.html

In May of $2006 I found a "spacious" and beautifully furnished (50mtr/new) one bedroom in Palermo near Blvd Charcas for $600 per month offered by the NYC owner on craigslist. It's probably at least $800 now. Even if was "reduced" to the 2006 level, it would still be double the rate of your friend's (unfurnished?) apartment in the city center.

When you first arrive you may find many things cheap here compared to the UK (certainly not electronics), but after two years those prices may have increased by 30% or more per year. If you salary is not guaranteed to increase as well, you will undoubtedly see a decline in your standard of living.

In the past two years my apartment association fees have doubled and my local taxes have increased threefold. My electric rate just doubled. Owners pass as much of these price increases on to renters as possible. You would have to renegotiate your temporary rental contract every six months and either accept the increases or relocate.

 

[steveinbsas]

That said, most Argentinians have a lifestyle that most americans wouldn´t be willing to have. It´s up to you whether you want to make certain sacrifices that are commonplace here...

...And to those who say that a $300 dollar a month apartment is probably a rathole, I find your comments at least somewhat offensive. Many, many, many middle class people here with dignified jobs live in $300 apartments or cheaper. Please keep in mind we don´t all have incomes in dollars.

I didn't say that the $300 a month apartment is "probably" a rathole. I said it "could" be a rathole. There is a big difference. Please quote me accurately if you disagree.

Quoting your post of 9 december, 2008:

I´ve rented rooms in many shared apartments or houses, and you can find rooms as cheap as 700 pesos a month...which are not recommended, since there is usually SOMETHING wrong with them if they are that cheap. Go for one around 1000 pesos a month, since you can afford it. You will be so much more comfortable. Also, for just a little more, maybe 1500 a month, you could probably find a temporary rental furnished studio apartment, if you prefer to live alone.

If a room for 700 pesos (about $200 US) is not desirable, imagine an entire two bedroom apartment for only $300 US. What's so offensive about speculating that it could be a rathole? It is a common expression used to designate an apartment with SOMETHING (very) wrong. I hope that the imagery that one word evokes gives simon a better picture of what he would be likely to find at that price.

Your estimate of $1500 pesos per month for a studio is accurate, and for just a little more $ there are very nice (but very small) studios available in better areas than the city center, including Recoleta and Palermo.

 

[steveinbsas]

If 1500 dollars a month is not a good wage and I would find it hard to live or save after paying half or more on rental, then how do all the supposedly 50,000 or more expats currently living in argentina survive? They all must have good paying jobs! or does every expat need to make a sacrifice to live in argentina? I'm a computer programmer and I would be taking a paycut of half my normal salary in the UK to move to argentina.

Many new arrivals come here with expectations based on obsolete information. A couple months ago an expat wannabe (pdxuser) referred to this link from 2002, believing the information was accurate:

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/RetirementandWills/RetireInStyle/RetiretoBuenosAires.aspx

I suggest you read all of the posts in the thread he started:

Can I come as a tourist, stay as rentista?

 

[syngirl]

If 1500 dollars a month is not a good wage and I would find it hard to live or save after paying half or more on rental, then how do all the supposedly 50,000 or more expats currently living in argentina survive? They all must have good paying jobs! or does every expat need to make a sacrifice to live in argentina? I'm a computer programmer and I would be taking a paycut of half my normal salary in the UK to move to argentina.

Most expats that are here longterm (2+ years) either:

1) live on their savings that they've accumulated in another currency -- ie they retire and live on foreign pension here, or they are young and they've made a decent amount of money in Europe or the US that will provide them the luxury of living here for 2 or more years without having to work;

2) come to BA with enough savings to start their own business, and if they're one of the lucky ones their business takes off and they do well;

3) come to BA with their job from home (ie freelance journalists, web designers (me), programmers, some lawyers that work from home here, all types that can work via net/phone;

4) came (past tense) to BA/Argentina property was dirt cheap after the crisis and bought multiple poperties to allow themselves to live in one and rent out the others for income;

5) The best case scenario (champagne & caviar category): come on a transfer with their Multinational which sets them up with a fantastic package:wages are same as they would get in Europe (ie at Total it's $8000-10000USD a month for their French managers), the company pays for their move, pays for their apartment while they're here, and pays for a flight home 2x a year. They don't have many out-of-pocket expenses so they really do get access to the good life.

Programmers don't get paid much here compared to the UK/US. If you're not happy to come to Argentina unless you get access to the best lifestyle etc then you might prefer finding a contract from home and convincing them to let you work satellite from here.

 

[syngirl]

If 1500 dollars a month is not a good wage and I would find it hard to live or save after paying half or more on rental, then how do all the supposedly 50,000 or more expats currently living in argentina survive? They all must have good paying jobs! or does every expat need to make a sacrifice to live in argentina? I'm a computer programmer and I would be taking a paycut of half my normal salary in the UK to move to argentina.

By the way: Your calculations of 1500 pesos being a good wage, isn't wrong. 4500/5000 pesos IS a good wage here.

What you're forgetting in that calculation is that the LARGE majority of Argentines do not leave home until they get married. They don't have to pay rent. They stay at home well into their late-20s and they don't have to pay for a thing, so any income they make is purely theirs.

Then when they do move out, a lot of middle-class Argentines and up are fortunate enough that their parents or grandparents BUY them their first apartment, so they only ever have to pay expensas, they don't pay rent.

Those that DO rent, move in with their novio/a or spouse and then they have 2 incomes to pay for everything, so yes they can enjoy the good life, one pays for rent and groceries, and then the other gives them access to all the extras.

Flat share is not as common here as it is in London. People don't share with strangers. If you do a flatshare, odds are it will be with other foreigners.

You can come and if you do a flatshare, you'll have a good time. But don't have big plans that you'l be able to go home with money in your pocket after a few years.
One other thing, as a foreigner, you have to pay tourist prices for air travel and sometimes at hotels etc, so a trip down to Calafate will eat up half your monthly wages etc.

You CAN do it, it's just whether you WANT to do it. Same as I always say, come for 6 months, try it out. Most expats leave by the time 2 years are up anyway. But it's pobably not going to be the worst 2 years of your life. Just come with some savings so you can do a bit of travel etc without eating too much into your income. Most friends I know that are on low wages leave BA only once in a blue moon as travel gets pretty expensive.

 

[syngirl]

Oh I forgot the other category of Expats 6) English teachers. Although I have yet to meet one that's been here over 2 years and hasn't found some other way to supplement their income.

The other expats I know who are here longterm and don't fit into the above categories have an Argentine other-half, so they take local jobs at local wages and live a normal no-frills life.

 

[mini]

If 1500 dollars a month is not a good wage and I would find it hard to live or save after paying half or more on rental, then how do all the supposedly 50,000 or more expats currently living in argentina survive? They all must have good paying jobs! or does every expat need to make a sacrifice to live in argentina? I'm a computer programmer and I would be taking a paycut of half my normal salary in the UK to move to argentina.

I don't think we are saying you can't live here on that salary, you shouldn't move or it's not a good wage. As you quoted it is a good salary for Argentina. But there isn't enough information from or about you for us to make a realistic assessment.

Also, we are pointing out to you that the key really is how this job is set up & if you will get a guarantia for an apartment, which you haven't answered or if you are willing to share an apartment. Are you alone or are you coming with a partner? You really should discuss the guarantia thing with your employer. They should know that you won't have one & that you need one to get a "regular" apartment. And remember that rents have gone up quite a bit in the last few years. It's important for you to know that.

We also took a pay cut to come here. & I certainly wouldn't say that we are suffering any down grade of standard of living. But we also can't spend money without thinking about it.