Just one more crisis

[gouchobob]

Seriously though... from my experiences...having lived in a few 3rd world countries... the lack of economic stability is closely tied to corruption of the government and it's peoples lack of trust in the system/the systems future. This leads society to think on individual terms...what can I get for me now attitude. This leads to a total break down of society...since the whole point of "society"..is to gain strength in #'s..
This often manifests itself in a vicious and predictable cycle (6 years/10years) of economic up and down turns (bubbles and crashes).. unfortunately the outcome is always the same.. the rich get richer...the poor get poorer

Good post and I agree with your points. However once in a while you do see a few rays of hope, a country that appears to be on the right track. Unfortunately that's not what I see in Argentina today. What's going to happen in Argentina next is more of the same of what they've had for the last 60 years or so. I don't think its bad enough today for there to be any real change. Change will come but things will have to get a lot worse, my bet is that its not going to be pretty and a lot of people are going to suffer in the process.

 

[SaraSara]

This place is a mess. Its not just the inflation but the predictions are dire. Argentina has had 10 years and has done next to nothing to make life better and apparently they are beating their war drums to bring this lovely lifestyle to those farmers on the south atlantic islands. How selfish of the ruling families who run this mafia that passes for a country.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience in Argentina - perhaps you should move on and see whether you can feel happier somewhere else.

In the meantime, it might be advisable to share your opinions about "this mafia that passes for a country" only with other expats. Such extreme views are guaranteed to make any self-respecting local feel like hitting you over the head with a chair.

 

[sergio]

Dillster is certainly negative....but is he all wrong? I find that Argentines put up with a lot. They know it's better in the 1st world but most haven't a clue to what extent life is easier and more pleasant there. Argentines who have lived in the 1st world have a more realistic view of their country

 

[SaraSara]

Dillster is certainly negative....but is he all wrong? I find that Argentines put up with a lot. They know it's better in the 1st world but most haven't a clue to what extent life is easier and more pleasant there. Argentines who have lived in the 1st world have a more realistic view of their country

I'm one such repatriated Argentine, and have learned to keep my mouth shut. To draw comparisons, or disparage Argentina serves no useful purpose and alienates the locals.

Most Argentines know full well they live in a Third World country, but feel it's their lot, their homeland - they have no alternative but to stay. In fact, many of them CHOOSE to stay. Even comfortably-off people don't consider emigrating, as their whole lives are invested here: family, roots, lifelong friendships, memories, etc. Many, like myself, spent half their lives overseas but decided to return.

I guess this is difficult to understand for those not born and bred here. They see only Argentina's bad points (and there are many) and have no inkling of the good things which make the locals choose to stay in Argentina.

 

[jaredwb]

I just finished reading all the posts and replies and I think everyone has very valid points.

I'm from the U.S. and appreciate all the luxuries and opportunities (both personal and material) that it has to offer.

I've also lived in Singapore which I would say is just as 1st world as the U.S.

Still, I choose to live in Argentina. Clearly there are serious issues here, corruption, security, lack of education. However, overall, I love the way of life that is available here. I find the locals warm and friendly (overall). I love the food. In short, I love the energy Buenos Aires offers. There is nothing like it anywhere in the World.

 

[citygirl]

Off-topic a bit but yes, there are some things here that I find overwhelmingly frustrating and it makes me shake my head to see Argentina shoot itself in the foot over & over again.

Take the difficulty (near impossibility) of starting a business here. Small business owners drive growth, give opportunities to others, are a key part of establishing a stable middle-class, etc. It is an essential part of a growing economy. Here - it's almost impossible.

We opened the subsidiary here at the end of '09. We're a small employer but we're the kind of employer you want here. WE are growing - rapidly. We pay good salaries, well above norm, everything is in blanco which means we pay lots of taxes, we have (had) plans to utilize BsAs as one of our main global hubs. And the work quality here is outstanding - I couldn't be happier with my employees.

But honestly, right now we have 3 major projects coming and I'm not sure I want to put the teams here. Between the astronomical inflation (20% percent raises a year), the incredible difficulties in the banking system (I have nightmares trying to get capital INTO the country to invest, can't imagine trying to get it out), the never-ending bullshit paperwork (we've now been waiting 5 months for an approval for something that was supposed to take 4 weeks maximum), the outrageous corp taxes, the fear of lawsuits, the system that can/does expose employers to extraordinary risks in terms of unemployment and severance, etc - how can I honestly sit in front of the president of my company and advocate for Argentina?

And I'm one small business. Now multiply that times 100s or 1000s or more. How does Argentina grow and stabilize when the underlying system seems designed to make it impossible to do so?

Look, I think BsAs is great. I have made wonderful friends and family and there are certainly many, many things I appreciate here. But as an outsider, sometimes I want to grab people and say "Don't put up with this BULLSHIT. Argentina can be so much more. There are great universities here, educated and responsible people, unbelievable natural resources, lots of room for growth - everything is here to have Argentina be back at the head of the class where they were in the 1900s.

And to watch it get pissed away, to watch the economy crash and burn every 10 years and yes, watch the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and then just see people go "Eh... no pasa nada... es normal, no importa" just frustrates the hell out of me. Because I think and believe Argentina and its people deserve so much more than what they have put up with for the last 80 years or so.

 

[ghost]

Off-topic a bit but yes, there are some things here that I find overwhelmingly frustrating and it makes me shake my head to see Argentina shoot itself in the foot over & over again.

Take the difficulty (near impossibility) of starting a business here. Small business owners drive growth, give opportunities to others, are a key part of establishing a stable middle-class, etc. It is an essential part of a growing economy. Here - it's almost impossible.

We opened the subsidiary here at the end of '09. We're a small employer but we're the kind of employer you want here. WE are growing - rapidly. We pay good salaries, well above norm, everything is in blanco which means we pay lots of taxes, we have (had) plans to utilize BsAs as one of our main global hubs. And the work quality here is outstanding - I couldn't be happier with my employees.

But honestly, right now we have 3 major projects coming and I'm not sure I want to put the teams here. Between the astronomical inflation (20% percent raises a year), the incredible difficulties in the banking system (I have nightmares trying to get capital INTO the country to invest, can't imagine trying to get it out), the never-ending bullshit paperwork (we've now been waiting 5 months for an approval for something that was supposed to take 4 weeks maximum), the outrageous corp taxes, the fear of lawsuits, the system that can/does expose employers to extraordinary risks in terms of unemployment and severance, etc - how can I honestly sit in front of the president of my company and advocate for Argentina?

And I'm one small business. Now multiply that times 100s or 1000s or more. How does Argentina grow and stabilize when the underlying system seems designed to make it impossible to do so?

Look, I think BsAs is great. I have made wonderful friends and family and there are certainly many, many things I appreciate here. But as an outsider, sometimes I want to grab people and say "Don't put up with this BULLSHIT. Argentina can be so much more. There are great universities here, educated and responsible people, unbelievable natural resources, lots of room for growth - everything is here to have Argentina be back at the head of the class where they were in the 1900s.

And to watch it get pissed away, to watch the economy crash and burn every 10 years and yes, watch the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and then just see people go "Eh... no pasa nada... es normal, no importa" just frustrates the hell out of me. Because I think and believe Argentina and its people deserve so much more than what they have put up with for the last 80 years or so.

Yes, yes and YES. Nail slammed right on the head. The perma-tourist, backpack, daddys check book clan doesn't have a clue as to why some folks on the board get so frustrated. But those of us who have businesses and have started businesses here see the great potential, good workers, educated employees and customers. And then the ENDLESS bullshit that stops progress at every turn, every addition and every new concept. I don't dislike Argentina but I hate the corruption and I really hate having the government as a MAJORITY partner. Not sharing in the profit but dictating how little I can make and keep, how I must invest, preventing capital flows both in and out and hog tying me every time a "simple" paperwork task needs submission and approval.
People here deserve better than a ship steered by fools, liars and idiots.
The prevailing mentality here is that business is evil, it can't be allowed to flourish and grow and the answer to every question is "NO".
These things are not hard to fix, techincally. However, changing the mentality of those in control is a futile effort.
And you become frustrated because it's easy to envision an Argentina that's productive and progressive.
End of rant....sorry.

 

[gouchobob]

I wouldn't say Argentina is the last place on earth I would try to start a business but it would be very far down the list. You really have to admire the locals who do and are successful in spite of all the roadblocks erected to prevent their success.

 

[perry]

I have to say that I agree with many comments here in the difficulties in doing business here . It is a minefield of delays and inefficiency that seems to be created this way .
The mentality in business here is also not a shared experience of networking but one of distrust and opportunism .

 

[SaraSara]

Reading this thread I keep thinking of Italy, always on the brink of disaster, afflicted by constant strikes, corrupt politicians, the Cosa Nostra, and other assorted calamities.

Yet the Italian people perdure and even prosper, and seem quite cheerful and reasonably satisfied with their lot .

In my view Argentines are Italian at heart, no matter where they came from. The bombast, the arrogance, the joy of life, and the emphasis on family ties are all things copied from Italians.

(Italy has a low low suicide rate: it comes in 72nd. place on the world's list, with Finland #14, Belgium #15, orderly Switzerland #17, France 18, and peaceful Uruguay #19. The US is #40, and Argentina #55. The list makes for interesting reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate)