land of the selfish - Part 2

[perry]

The sad thing I notiice about Argentina is evryone is trying to deny the diversity that exists here. It is not and has never been a white european society .
Yes the majority of immigrants here came from Europe but also a huge community of Lebanese Syrian Armenian Japanese and Romany immigrated to this Country.
Two of the most famous argentine people Maradona and Mercedes Sosa are metsizos and we should be proud of their heritage.
Sure if you live in Recoleta Puerto Madero you wont see that but stretch your horizons a little bit and visit other areas and you will many diverse cultures living here

 

[syngirl]

As a Canadian (and a Vancouverite by origin) it makes me smile when people refer to the HUGE number of Asians in BA & Argentina.
The Nikkei Association place the number of Asians in Argentina around 70,000 (32,000 Japanese, 35,000 Koreans, 2,000 Laotians) -- out of 36million people.
Compare that to Canada (population figure from 2006 census = 32million): 3.2 million to 4.4 million — The projected number of members of the South Asian or Chinese visible minority groups. Roughly half of all visible minority persons would belong to these two groups in 2017. Nearly one of every three people living in British Columbia would belong to a visible minority group in 2017, under the reference scenario. (Source: StatsCan)
Taking into consideration the much larger population of Japanese next door in Brasil, as well as in Peru, I think we have to conclude that using the term HUGE in reference to the numbers of Japanese in Argentina is a bit of an overstatement ; )
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Here are some articles that may interest you:
"The nineteenth century founders of the nation aimed to make Argentina a white nation through various policies aimed at eliminating ethnic minority populations, while simultaneously encouraging European immigration [...] Recent estimates of the indigenous population in Argentina vary widely from 450,000 to 1.5 million, approximately one to four per cent of the total Argentine population of approximately 36 million. These differing figures expose the lack of adequate census data on indigenous peoples, and make it difficult to gauge their civic and political participation. The last census of indigenous peoples was taken between 1965 and 1968."
From: http://academic.udayton.edu/race/06hrights/GeoRegions/SouthAmerica/argentina01.htm

"To date, over 65 percent of the country's foreign-born population of 1,531,940 comprises immigrants from neighboring countries (see Figure 1), and only 4.2 percent of the population is foreign born compared with its peak of 30 percent in 1914. Nevertheless, Argentina's net migration rate remains positive at 0.4/1,000 population in 2005, and the country is host to over half of South America's migrant population. "
Good stats -- figures states immigrants mostly from Paraguay (http://www.migrationinformation.org/Profiles/display.cfm?ID=374)

Basic history of immigration to Argentina: http://www.yale-university.com/ynhti/curriculum/units/1990/1/90.01.06.x.html

 

[ramon]

I like to put my words into this debate and say as an argentine born person who has travelled every province of this country form north to south that many of the people here are not correct in the statements.
Number one there is a significant japanese population in argentina . Over 70000 japanese descendants live in argentina today.
There are close to 3 million middle easten descendants in argentina concentrated in buenos aires province the northern provinces of Santiage de estero Mendoza jujuy and many more.
For your information the ex president of argentina Menem was born a muslim and converted to catholism to obtain the presidency here.
The best compliment I can give my country is that all these varied races adopted Argentina as their home and did not create the ghettos of race one encounters in Vancouver New York London and Paris

 

[bigbadwolf]

The best compliment I can give my country is that all these varied races adopted Argentina as their home and did not create the ghettos of race one encounters in Vancouver New York London and Paris

But there are areas which are poverty-stricken and quite dangerous in and around Buenos Aires. Furthermore there is subtle race stratification, with a mild analogue of "white flight" to gated communities in the Northern Suburbs. Of course, there's nothing like the South Bronx or South-Central LA, but there are reasons for this.

 

[gracielle]

"Furthermore there is subtle race stratification, with a mild analogue
of "white flight" to gated communities in the Northern Suburbs. Of
course, there's nothing like the South Bronx or South-Central LA, but
there are reasons for this."I have to agree with BBW's comment...except I would leave out the word "subtle" and "gated". There is nothing subtle about this. There are many neighborhoods that are not gated north of downtown that attract predominantly upper middle class persons of whatever extract. The key is what you can afford to pay. The color of the skin or presumed heritage is secondary.

 

[igor]

Igor, I have to look for the study. What I have found so far is this:
http://muse.jhu.edu/cgi-bin/access.cgi?uri=/journals/human_biology/v076/76.4marignac.pdf

This page provides a bit longer abstract of the article:
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0199-3738924_ITM
Only 87 people were included into the study and they specifically tried to exclude people with indian last names. They claim it to represent a random population, but if if the samples were collected from the people who participate in medical experiments in public hospitals, the resutls may be shifted to represent lower income people.
Anyway 70-85% of population of european origin seems to be a reasonable estimate where lower limit is based on genetics and upper on self-identification and culture.
Not sure how it compares to Paris, though

 

[malbec]

pericles, Armenia is considered by most culturally and geographically part of Europe. By no means is it in the Middle East!I
am proud of the social/racial diversity in Argentina. But facts are
facts...most argentinians are of european descent. This is particularly
true in Buenos Aires (aborigenes in Buenos Aires and around BA were all
killed. People looking like argentine natives came later to BA from the
provinces or neighbouring countries). Not even the guaranies in
Misiones are 100% argentine natives. They all have already some
european blood in them.

There was quite a large black population in Argentina too. Most
of them came from Angola (a former portuguese colony). Their genes are
among argentinians too. There were inmigrants from arabic countries,
from Asia (I have some friends of japanese origins in Argentina)...who
can deny it? And what's the point of denying it? But anyone who says
that most argentinians are descendents of europeans is by no means not
saying the truth.I only hope the argentine govt. keeps that relaxed inmigration policy.

 

[perry]

malbec is Syria part of Europe as well .?

 

[Mitch]

For instance "40% of Argentinas ar of European extraction"!!! Wow, check the CIA fact book and the percentage is an overwheming 97%
Cheers!

Do you really believe Argentina is 97% white? Because if you do, I'm sorry to tell you that you are a little misinformed... Actually, only 44% of Argentinians are pure European. The rest (56%) are mestizo (in varying degrees) and about 10% are pure Amerindian. Have you not heard about the DNA study carried out by the UBA? Maybe this link helps a bit... http://www.clarin.com/diario/2005/01/16/sociedad/s-03415.htm
The CIA can't be a reliable source since they've NEVER done any research... They just rely on data from the Argentine government. Let's get real... The 97% figure is FALSE and OUTDATED.

 

[perry]

Great post Mitch and it is obvious that many people here are living in a bubble .
I suggest to some of you to travel outside of the Wealthier areas of Buenos Aires and see the beautiful diversity of people Argentina has .Go to Tucuman or Santiago De Estero Missiones Mendoza and you will see a myriad of faces and cultures .
Having a touch of european blood never has and never will make you european . Only 13 percent of argentines were born in Europe the rest are ARGENTINES many with indian blood .
To have indian blood is something to be very proud off as you are the original inhabitants of this land that is so dear to our hearts . You will never find a more hospitable people than the people of the north of this country to visit there is something I cannot recommend highly enough