land of the selfish - Part 2

[nikad]

Just remeber 5 years ago tourism here was non existent and today its one of our biggest money earners creating jobs and a lot of wealth for the country.

Argentina is rapidly changing in some ways better thanks to those policies
My take is different. Most tourists in Argentina are there because it's (relatively) cheap. If the country really did become wealthy, prices would soar through the roof, and it would become less attractive to the kind of tourists who presently go there. Just go back ten years, when the peso was at par with the dollar: Argentina was considerably less enticing then. This tourism is creating some jobs, but one can't help but look askance at the kind of jobs: low-pay, low-skill service sector jobs that do nothing to modernise the country. Much of the "entrepreneurial activity" (I use the term loosely) is also connected to this tourism: speculation in property, or buying a place, fixing it up, and renting it out. Whether this contributes to the real economy and general prosperity can be doubted.
My contention is that the country isn't changing, that politicians and businessmen haven't the foggiest idea of what should be done, and probably don't even care. Developed and emerging economies seem to be moving, changing, innovating, and adapting at ever greater speed.
Argentina is a nice place to visit, the people are free of malice (in my opinion), but the all-essential change and movement that is so essential in today's world is absent. Back of all meaningful movement and change lies the flux and development of ideas: it's here that Argentina is completely stagnant. All the problems that visitors and expats whine about -- noise, air pollution, dogs, and so on -- pale into insignificance compared to the palpable feeling of intellectual and cultural torpor.

I couldn't agree any more with you! It is really embarrasing hearing some stories from exxpats or tourists that got scammed by real estate agents: fake pictures, poor service, etc etc etc. During Menem's presidency, you would hardly ever meet tourists! Buenos Aires was as expensive as London or NYC. Now it is very affordable, yet some locals speculate and think that if they are getting it for cheap, they shouldn't complain....wrong! even the cheapest tourists are used to higher service standards and we are not fulfilling their expectations. It is a shame, but culturally, the porteno improvises with everything, is not punctual, and we give a very unprofessional feeling. I have travelled and you certainly feel the differences. I was never able to understand where Kirchner's government was heading to, and I still don't get it. One of the biggest problems we have been having for decades is federalism. This country is supposed to be federal, but that only happens in theory: the demographics, distribution on income, reflect it. This country still doesn't have a good plan, and without it, it just won't grow.

 

[lady_in_red]

Why should EVERYONE love your culture? Is it a must or something? This is just the typical Argentine attitude: "We can criticize you but don't you dare criticize us"
Isn't THAT feeling superior???

1- Why should EVERYONE love your culture? Because you are living here if you can't adapt to it go back to your country.
2-This is just the typical Argentine attitude: "We can criticize you but don't you dare criticize us" Isn't THAT feeling superior???
You can critized if you are an Argentinean (it means argie / spain /italian / chilean /people from uruguay or whatever nationality ) who are here working , living and paying taxes.If you are here as Tourist for a long vacations or a couple of years you can't. What about the 12 millons of illegal in US ? do they have the same rights than American because they live there illegaly ? NO.

 

[ramon]

You can critized if you are an Argentinean (it means argie / spain /italian / chilean /people from uruguay or whatever nationality ) who are here working , living and paying taxes.If you are here as Tourist for a long vacations or a couple of years you can't. What about the 12 millons of illegal in US ? do they have the same rights than American because they live there illegaly ? NO.
I doubt very much that this person is educated in a university as she says with this attitude.
For your information most expats here do pay taxes and do benefit and employ many argentine workers here.
I lived in Barcelona for 3 years and found the Argentines whinged and critisized the people more than any other race there. They are not thought of in a high regard there for this attitude.
So its ok to come here as long as we keep our mouths completely shut as stated by this argentine ambassador

 

[nikad]

Being critic is always good, just not insulting... The more I think about it, the more i realise that sometimes even if you have an very good command of the language, there are subtle expressions, words, etc that confuse you. I met many expats that sound really rude in spanish and they just don´t realise it, that is why I usually have a load of extra patience

My most loved one is an american citizen, and sometimes we have these kind of small problems, even cursing is different, so go figure!

When you talk about somebody els´s country is just as if you were talking about his home - and I guess that is why we tend to get very subjective and emotional. It is a very delicate topic, that in most cases ends up hurting sensitivities

 

[Mitch]

When you talk about somebody els´s country is just as if you were talking about his home - and I guess that is why we tend to get very subjective and emotional. It is a very delicate topic, that in most cases ends up hurting sensitivities

You're right!!! That's what I'm trying to say... When Argentines bash other countries, they don't care if they hurt someone's feelings...

 

[gracielle]

Ramon..." I doubt very much that this person is educated in a university as she says with this attitude"...What does Lady-in-Red's level of education have to do with her attitude or opinion? Should only the "highly" educated have the right to express opinions? I am a very proud and opinionated Argentine-American. I hold a PhD from the University of California at Berkeley. Are my posts any more important or truer? HELL NO!

 

[ramon]

Having an opinion is everyones right but telling people to leave the country as Lady in red has just because we dare to critisize argentina is that a good attitude gracielle .
It seems to me that Foreigners living here must keep their mouths shut as freedom of speech seems to be very limited to Argentine born citizens only!

 

[gracielle]

Ramon...."It seems to me that Foreigners living here must keep their mouths
shut as freedom of speech seems to be very limited to Argentine born
citizens only!". Lady-in-Red is expressing her opinion, as all others do on this forum. Nobody has to pass a "citizenship" test to post. But cheap shots are not nice.

 

[malbec]

Yes, we argentinians should lower our heads, swallow our pride and
finally admit that we are the noisiest, dirtiest and most arrogant
people in the world (sorry, I forgot we are the most corrupt people in
the World too) and unable to run the country...we don't know how to
make business, we are condemned to cows and wheat, and the fumes! oh,
and the exhaust gases! and we are very very lazy (probably the laziest
nationality in the World), our employees are the worst in the World,
our food is disgusting (some of the posters wrote that maybe...there is
a remote possibility...perhaps...the *cough* meat *cough* is not that
bad), we are the most unhappy people in the world (as revealed by that
high number of psycologists), the worst drivers ever, we wait around
the corner until pedestrians are on our way and then...! our girls are
not that nice-looking after all, beer sucks, the wines are becoming
more expensive, appts are crap, there are no happy couples in the
country, infidelity is rampant, the country is not that cheap after all
(being cheap almost being the less negative aspect), it rains dog s_hit
all over, clothing is overpriced, ohhhh, I almost forgot criminality:
the most violent city in the World, the smoking is probably worse than
in all other countries together, we are just uncivilised ugly creatures
who want to cut the heads of all foreigners living in the country,
expropiate all foreign-owned estancias...and we are the most ungrateful
people in the World for not accepting the solutions to all our evils
proposed every year by a dozen experts who pop up and of course know
about our problems much better than we do! Have I mentioned that our
girls are very ugly?

 

[igor]

Just as a suggestion, you may stop repeating all the negative things you see here and say something positive about Argentina.