Lockdown could last another 6 to 10 weeks

[Ceviche]

congratulations on the imminent birth of your child.

Congrats Bajo.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I didn’t call him a dictator. But he does rule by DNU and as far as I understand he is directly involved in reviewing And approving all of the provincial plans - hence why LR spends half his time at Olivos and any measures are announced by AF before HR. Oh but, Macri... enemy of the people and all...

Check the R factor and also the situation room. The vast vast vast majority of cases are in the villas. Palermo, the most populated neighborhood, has about 80 cases. Or the government stats are not to be believed...

The problem was that Macri ruled by DNU without crisis to by pass the Congress and the Judicial Power, the governors, and so on. Most of the members here like Macri and this is why they give them opinion according to Macri´s past behavior.

A DNU is a law enacted by the President because of the urgency, and a law is a general decisión at Federal Level. When you decide on a particular person then it is an administrative act (the DNU 70/2017 was a decisión on my work and this is why he was called a dictator), when it is related to a province you need the decreto of the governor or a law of the local Congress.

AF decided on the pass system because it is more democratic because it respects local authorities but if things go really bad he can declare the State of Siege taking control of CABA. You can declare the state of siege, for ejempla, at Recoleta, Palermo, Villa 31 only.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

What about Norway? Tell me more about their lockdown measures and plans for any future bouts of virus.

I`m clueless about Norway, I have family in Sweden, this is why I follow up its situation.

 

[Dougie]

OH, and English teacher thing, sorry - what's predicted for the 10th is the "peak", meaning highest point of something. A "pike" is a melee weapon like an extra-long spear, and also the name of a type of fish. Don't be embarrassed, the other day I said "pajeros" when I meant "pasajeros". You should have heard my friends laugh at me.

Nice of you possum. I don't agree with many of Bajo's views but I see people here sometimes mock Bajo's English when rebutting one of his points. He probably speaks better English than most English speaking expats can speak in Spanish.

 

[Redpossum]

Nice of you possum. I don't agree with many of Bajo's views but I see people here sometimes mock Bajo's English when rebutting one of his points. He probably speaks better English than most English speaking expats can speak in Spanish.

Bajo certainly speaks English better than I speak Castellano! And I actually do agree with most of his expressed opinions.

A few months ago, pre-quarantine, I was supposed to meet the owner of my apartment to pay him the rent, and I was delayed by vacio and beers with a friend of mine. I sent the landlord a message telling him I was "un poco retardado", when I should have said "demorado" or "atrasado". When I eventually arrived at his office, he answered the door with a big grin and informed me that the word I had used means mentally retarded.

 

[Dougie]

Everyone who learns another language can certainly relate to your stories.

My greater point was that it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I see people mock Bajo for his English, and it was refreshing to see someone correct him in a polite manner. It's quite clear that you'd do that for someone you disagree with as well. Good on you.

 

[antipodean]

AF decided on the pass system because it is more democratic because it respects local authorities but if things go really bad he can declare the State of Siege taking control of CABA. You can declare the state of siege, for ejempla, at Recoleta, Palermo, Villa 31 only.

This is the biggest single problem about the handling of this epidemic. For me HL is just as culpable as AF on this issue. Villa 31, like all villas, was never put into an enforced quarantine. Shops and hairdressers stayed open. People stayed on the streets. Testing posts were not set up. Movement in and out of the villa was not restricted. The government was quick to throw them all $10k but slow to give them repairs of water.
It now has well over 6,000 cases that account for the majority of cases in CABA together with Bajo Flores and these cases allegedly only started to be seen a few weeks ago. A few weeks ago was the moment when CABA and Argentina as a whole should have been seeing the virus receding into small and manageable clusters thanks to a good overall overall handling of the epidemic earlier on. We should have emerged from full lockdown like the rest of the world after the same amount of time in lockdown. Instead this failure set everyone back and will cost countless lives of the most vulnerable people in our community not to mention economic consequences that will have a lasting effect on many more lives.

Regarding Norway, they did not actually have a strict lockdown like here in Argentina. A few days ago their prime minister said that most of the decisions they took were out of fear and that if the virus re-emerged they would not take measures to the same extent again.
Hence the comparison that Argentina is Norway not Sweden is totally false and misleading, because if Argentina were like Norway it would end up with less cases and would have avoided a complete shutdown of the economy for any length of time.

It may come as a surprise for hardcore partisans, but most opposing voices are not waiving Macri flags nor calling for a complete abandonment of social distancing or quarantine measures. We are calling for things to be better managed and more adaptable in order to care for both health and economy, just as countless other countries have managed to do including those with less resources than Argentina.
Likewise we are asking or productive and open dialogue where hard questions about decisions being taken today can be asked without endless excuses about yesterday or denuncias as being anti-life / macrista or whatever other label gets thrown out.

 

[antipodean]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Norway

Ok it is Wikipedia, but it gives a nice summary and can be supported by news clippings if in doubt. Their whole "lockdown" lasted about two weeks. Which pretty much just meant no school, no bars and no gyms. Pretty much everything else was left up to the individual and most sectors of the economy continued to function. And even these "measures" lead to their society and leadership asking if it was over the top in recent days, while in Sweden their society and leadership are asking if their own was not enough.

The purpose of this is to highlight that alternative approaches to the one Argentina has followed to date are possible and have proven results in terms of balancing health and economy, without "ending up like Sweden" (or Brazil, US, Chile, Russia, Turkey etc etc etc)

And population-wise Norway is bigger than CABA but had less cases and less fatalities and more tests. As of today CABA is on about 9314 cases and climbing - the overwhelming majority of these cases are in our villas. Unfortunately Argentina is a long way from being Norway despite what AF so famously lauded.

 

[Jeremias]

Sweden and Argentina are the two extremes: no quarantine vsus early quarantine. Do you need an explanation with apples? Here we go: Sweden has 45 dead apples every 100.000 apples while Argentina has 1.2.
I don’t need to be Churchill, you neither to ser this facts.

But when it was Argentina VS Uruguay, you brilliantly explained to us that, it was not about maths, stats and figures, it was 'more complex'. Apples and Oranges.

So I guess, when it is Argentina VS Sweden, it is strictly about maths, stats and figures..? Apples and Apples.

Anyway, the truth as you well know, is more complex. Sweden did some social distancing thing, but, the deaths in Sweden mostly come from their migrant (Somali) community. As the Covid apparently hits harder people from Somali, and other, background. For genetic, medical, maybe even socio-economic reasons.

 

[antipodean]

In addition to more "crowded" migrant communities, Sweden also had a lot of cases and fatalities centered around nursing homes which caused quite the scandal.

Norway on the other hand took some specific measures early on to protect health care professionals and those working with vulnerable groups such as those in nursing homes to try and stem the spread. Did not take 80+ days of lockdown to do it either.

Meanwhile here we still have new outbreaks happening in nursing homes every few days.