Looking for an apartment

[ElQueso]

Just wanted to clear up a few things about a 2-year contract. I'm not exactly an expert, but I've now done two contracts in two different places, with two different owners and two different real estate companies. The exact details of a couple of items I can't remember off the top of my head (probably due to clutter!) but the generalities at first are more important.

Two year contracts are not available to only Argentinians. Even some Argentinians can't manage to rent a property, the poor and those without resources. If you meet the legal qualifications within the laws for renting, and the owner agrees to what you agree to within the laws, and whatever is in the actual contract you sign doesn't contradict anything in the laws, you can rent.

As to whether or not you have to be a resident or citizen to enforce the contract, I honestly don't know. I'd be surprised if that were true, unless the foreigner in question actually fled the country and then that would certainly complicate things. But a lawyer could answer that one better than me.

As far as I know, a guarantee is not a legal requirement, but a legally enforceable option that the large majority of property owners use to back up the contract. The law here related to people who occupy property that is not their own strongly favor the occupants over the owners. Particularly if the occupant involved is a family with any kids. It is really, really, really difficult to oust people occupying a property under most circumstances.

An exception to that is a property that is offered under a temporary contract, which cannot be more than than six months long (and problems arise with back-to-back temporary contracts), no matter what someone may sign. The laws are completely different between temporary and long term. It may still be difficult to oust someone from a temporary apartment (at least a foreigner - I don't know about Argentinos occupying a temporary apartment - many companies will not rent temporary apartments to Argentinos and maybe that's why), but it's easier and less time consuming.

Therefore, the guarantee is to keep the long term renter honest. And not just on occupying the property without paying, but also against damages and taking things that the apartment came with.

All that being said, there are owners who will rent without property guarantees.

Foreigners from North America, Europe, Japan, Australia, etc, are more trusted by the owners in some cases than Argentinians as renters and that can play in your favor. Some will take a huge deposit, maybe equal to the total 2 year's rent (the extreme end, perhaps). Some will take 6 months or a year. Some will take a two month deposit PLUS 6 months at a time, a year or even the entire contract up front.

The first place I lucked into that wasn't a temporary apartment was when an acquaintance had to return to the US before his two year contract was up. He'd paid the entire contract up front and was leaving ten months before the contract ended. He'd probably never see a dime of that money. So he sublet it to me (turns out that most contracts specify no subletting, but we both took a chance). I took good care of the place, the owner returned the guy's deposit at the end of the contract (though he was a little peeved, rightfully so, that we hadn't notified him of the change in occupation) and everyone ended up in good shape.

Most long term contracts nowadays spell out different rental amounts for the first year and the second year. It's usually a 20% inflation increase, but varies by owner and can be negotiable.

You will be penalized if you break a before the 2 year contract ends, not just within the first six months.

The penalties vary on when in the contract you do it. This is where I get a little hazy. I reviewed my contract and find it doesn't say what the penalty is in the first six months. It does say that in the first year the penalty is equal to one and one half month's rent. After the first year it's equal to one month's rent.

I thought if you cancelled a contract in the first six months the penalty was equal to the remainder of the first 6 months unpaid rent, but my wife says it's only two month's rent penalty period.

Almost always, if you are renting a property in Cap Fed, the owner requires a guarantee from a property in Cap Fed. But that's not 100% either.

I rented a house in a closed neighborhood a few years ago, and I had an Argentine friend who was extremely kind enough to guarantee my lease with an apartment he owned in Cordoba. The rental company I worked with didn't think we would find an owner willing to rent with property in Cordoba, but we found a nice place that we were very happy with those two years.

I have a friend who has never had to have a guarantee to rent long term. I envy him. He's currently in a building near the Recoleta cemetary. It's modern, has central air and heating and nice appliances.

He walks the neighborhoods, talks to porteros, finds out who has apartments for rent in their building and then talks to the owners. He's never in a hurry and always finds what he's looking for.

It took me a little less than two years renting temporary before I had gotten to the point where I had made enough contacts and friends to be able to rent long term. Others have done it quicker. That's the thing about living in Argentina - it's easier to get along if you integrate, at least to a certain extent. You need to find people who know people to get better deals on things like rentals.

Currently, my contract expired in April. I have a verbal agreement with the owner to continue to rent month-to-month, with an agreement on both sides to notify the other with a change of plans at least 60 days in advance. I'm comfortable, for the first time in 6 years living here, that I have decent living quarters covered for the time being, without worrying about where my next apartment is going to be

 

[alicia30]

Question to Snowwhite: are you paying cash or US check? or exchanged to pesos?
I just recently got an apartment and I do not have garantia. Don't be fooled by these people. These days everyone wants US dollars. If you have money back home, you can offer to write them a check from US and most owners that have bank accounts abroad (from my personal experience most of them do) would be glad to accept those. Its the best way for these people to take money out of the country without paying taxes.
Anyways, my point is, these days if you have USD cash, you probably don't need anything. Instead of a garantia, I had my company provide something like a proof of employment.
Here's my advice, spend sometime browsing through zonaprop, argenprop or vivavisos, they all have more or less the same properties listed. Some of them are going to ask you if you have garantia before showing you a property, just tell them you are a foreigner but you can get it if it is necessary. Half of the prices are going to be in usd, but don't worry, ask them how much it is in pesos. Legally, they cannot sign contracts in usd anymore, and besides there aren't that many people here that can pay in usd anyways. From the peso equivalent they give you, you can figure out whether the owner is expecting official exchange rate or the blue dollar rate. From there, I would deduct 10-20% from the real dollar price (e.g. if someone asks for 2000 usd banco nacion, it is in fact 1500 usd) and tell them you have cash or check or you can do a transfer in US.
Unless it is a property that you absolutely need to have, make your offer and walk away. Trust me, they'll call you within a week. Garantia is really not that important if you can give them usd. Don't listen to them when they tell you to pay 6 months up front or leave more than a 2 month deposit. Deposits here is almost always 1 month. My landlord wanted 2 months so I told him 1 month deposit and 1 month in advance, take it or leave it. He called me back the next day and accepted it.

 

[Ceviche]

Question to Snowwhite: are you paying cash or US check? or exchanged to pesos?
I just recently got an apartment and I do not have garantia. .

I am paying 1650 us$ for a very swanky 1 bedroom apartment in palermo on a short term lease. I have been staying here over the years. But i still feel that the owner does not appreciate me.

Please advise if its possible to get a 2 year lease on furnished apartment. I am single and I have no time to decorate or furnish the apartment. Did you come across such apartments in your search?

I am lucky because I expect to travel in out of Argentina almost every week - 10 days in near future with access to us$ from other countries.

I think this makes my situation stronger.

What kind of typical Argentine rate can I expect to pay for a 1 bedroom apartment in a really nice A+ building, furnished, all utilities to be paid by landlord.

 

[earlyretirement]

I am paying 1650 us$ for a very swanky 1 bedroom apartment in palermo on a short term lease. I have been staying here over the years. But i still feel that the owner does not appreciate me.

Please advise if its possible to get a 2 year lease on furnished apartment. I am single and I have no time to decorate or furnish the apartment. Did you come across such apartments in your search?

I am lucky because I expect to travel in out of Argentina almost every week - 10 days in near future with access to us$ from other countries.

I think this makes my situation stronger.

What kind of typical Argentine rate can I expect to pay for a 1 bedroom apartment in a really nice A+ building, furnished, all utilities to be paid by landlord.

Ceviche,

That's not a good feeling if you feel like you're not being appreciated. Definitely there are locals that rent out to other Porteños without a guarantia. It's not too common but it happens many times friends of friends or referrals of friends. I'm leasing out 2 of my properties to Porteõs without guarantias.

On a 2 year lease, most owners would NOT pay utilities. The tenant typically pays that as owners don't want to get stuck on a tenant that just leaves his AC running 24/7 even if they don't need it. With the subsidies ending, the rates can be skyhigh.

 

[Ashley]

I think its still going to be difficult to go the traditional route without a guarantee but you should definitely be able to negotiate with short-term rental owners, especially if you pay in dollars! I'd have a look at apartments being rented by owners directly (soloduenos.com.ar - maybe craiglist) and then start negotiating. There is a slump in the market, so I'm sure you'll find something. If, however, you still want a regular, 2 year, place consider that a) you will be responsible for all bills b) you will be responsible for expensas (which seem to be going up at a ludicrous rate and are often 1/3 or a 1/4 of your monthly rent) c) you will need furniture, fridge, etc (which are very expensive)...You also pay x2 rent to the estate agent + 1xrent deposit before you can even move in. At the end of the day, unless you're living in a really swanky temporary rental, I'd say it probably isn't vastly cheaper any more to rent a regular place. I've also found that the owners of regular rentals aren't the most responsible. I know plenty of people (including myself) that have had to deal with gas leaks, boiler problems, major damp, etc...and the owners just don't give a crap! I'm guessing that if they were renting something furnished, they might be a little more inclined to maintain the quality.

 

[earlyretirement]

I think I remember you posting in another post Ceviche that you decided to stay in that apartment. Did that not work out? Also, if the owner was including all bills, then definitely I could understand why he was raising the rates every year or so.

On almost all 2 year long-term leases the tenant always pays the utility bills. The condo fee is negotiated but in most of the properties I've leased out on a 2 year lease, the tenant has paid for all utilities and the condo bill. The only thing I paid was the ABL bill and the annual asset taxes on the property.

But I do agree with Ashley that owners that furnish out higher end rentals tend to take better care of the property and address problems as they want to keep the place in good condition.

 

[alicia30]

I am paying 1650 us$ for a very swanky 1 bedroom apartment in palermo on a short term lease. I have been staying here over the years. But i still feel that the owner does not appreciate me.

Please advise if its possible to get a 2 year lease on furnished apartment. I am single and I have no time to decorate or furnish the apartment. Did you come across such apartments in your search?

I am lucky because I expect to travel in out of Argentina almost every week - 10 days in near future with access to us$ from other countries.

I think this makes my situation stronger.

What kind of typical Argentine rate can I expect to pay for a 1 bedroom apartment in a really nice A+ building, furnished, all utilities to be paid by landlord.

My apartment is about 150 m2, furnished with nice appliances like smeg stove, 40" plasma TV (one in living room and one in bedroom) and I'm paying 2250 usd, it is in Belgrano near subte. The building is really old so I don't have a pool or anything. Owner pays building related fees (ABL and etc.) I pay electric, gas, water and internet.

In my opinion, in this economy everything is negotiable lol

I don't know what kind of apartment you like, but maybe something like this might work for you?
(I can't post links yet but the website is www dot zonaprop dot com dot ar)
The homepage where it says buscar pro codigo type in "2045235"
The list price is 7800 pesos, in blue dollar it's like 1250 I think. Its not big but I thought its quite nicely decorate and furnished. This looks like one of those newer buildings with great amenities. If you don't like this one just browse through the listings on the website.

Just remember to always begin negotiations with pesos. Some people even sign contracts in dollars but pays in pesos according to the official exchange rate. Example: 3000 dollar X 24 months. This month I pay 3000 X 4.6 pesos, next month I pay 3000 X 4.7 pesos, etc. Since you have access to dollars you won't have any problems. If they start to ask you about DNI, garantia, etc. Tell them you can pay cash and maybe they can work something out. If not, just call another apartment. Seems like "billetes dolares" is the magic word these days lol

 

[LostinBA]

We are currently living in an apartment which we rent through a temporary stay type agency. The rent was initially 1900 $USD p/m but after negotiations and my willingness to pay in advance, we managed to pay only 1250 %USD p/m. The contract is due to expire at the end of this month so we need to decide if we are going to pay upfront again or find somewhere else.

I was taking Spanish lessons in an apartment which was a studio, in a new building in P/Hollywood, The tenant was paying only 2000 peso p/month but she told me that these types of apartments are only available to Argentinians.

Does anyone know more about this?

Really just looking for somewhere two call home on a permanent basis, in P/hollywood in a new building. I am prepared to pay upfront 1 year if need be.

thanks in advance to everyone who replies

As others have pointed out in other threads, temporary rentals aren't such a bad deal when you consider that renting an "empty" apartment with a guarantor would require you to buy ALL the furniture, buy and install A/C (which you will need), fridge, probably stove, etc, etc. Paying ABL (property taxes), cable, internet, electricity, etc, etc makes your 2000 peso/month apartment more like a a 4000 peso/month apartment when all is said and done...plus when you decide to return to your country, you'll have to try to sell everything off.

I have a guarantor and honestly, were I to do it again, I would look for an all inclusive 'temporary' rental.

 

[alicia30]

With respect to utilities, always ask for the "paquete" price. (package price). I might be 1000 or 2000 pesos more. This means the landlord pays building related fees (expensas/ABL), which is really important because from what I heard, this is increasing every year and you don't want to get stuck with paying those. If you are paying usd cash, maybe you could offer like 100-150 more and ask the owner to pay for gas and water and internet, sometimes even cover a portion of your electric bill. Such as cover 200 pesos and anything more than that you pay yourself. This could really work for you if you travel a lot and are not home most of the times. But then again, gas and water, etc are really cheap here, like only a couple of hundred pesos tho...

 

[ElQueso]

As I understand it legally, you cannot rent back to back short term leases. That's why I quit renting temporary apartments - I got sick of moving. Every owner I talked to about renting long term with short term contracts told me that because the laws are different, the back to back contract could cause them problems if someone gave them problems about leaving. The courts would apply long term law to the situation and they would be screwed without a guarantee. It seems like two back to back may not have been a problem, but certainly more than that is (again, as I was told by one rental agency and three different owners) - but I'm not sure about the two back to back even.

Not saying that people don't rent that way, but I gave up after the first few apartments where I got that answer and decided if I was going to stay long term, I might as well put down some roots.

What decided me was when I was in an apartment for 6 months, and I had to have a desk of some sort to work on. I went and bought a fairly cheap desk (still have it, actually). When it came time to move, I regretted the hassle because the desk was the only thing I'd accumulated besides a couple of boxes of stuff that was easily moveable. Not easily ported twenty-some blocks and had to call a flete just for the desk.

Did I mention how tired of moving I got? Heh.

But I furnished my entire apartment for around $3500 USD (my first one). As our needs grew, so did my living space and I was able to buy a bed here, a chair here, etc. Over time it pays off. I'd never go back to renting temporary unless it was a step to moving somewhere else. If I couldn't rent long-term for some reason, I'd leave the country for somewhere I could.

If I was here for a year or two, I'd never consider a long term contract either. It all depends on what your long term plans are.