Mercado Central Purchases 40% Less

[thorsten]

Probably this Navarro has a (big) help from government with these informs and this investigations.

You got it half-way right - he definitely gets a lot of "support" from this government...

 

[Matiasba]

This is trolling. If you dont want to continue talking just leave. Im considering that too.

 

[internationalguy]

You can google, I guess you ll find the way Wall Mart establishes everywhere and what they doi. They start subsidising and selling very cheap, cheaper than every competitor to make them out of bussiness. Then, when they have killed them all, talking of the small competitors, they can sell you in whichever price they want.
In Argentina used to exist a loot of groceries stores, small bussiness, traditional, weel known in the neigbourhood, pintoresque characters of the neighbourhood, people that sold on credit because they knew you. It was like an all middle class scenario, their sons used to go at the same public school than your sons, barrio interaction. But then this huge chains arrived and broke that. They concentrated all the money, they destroyed 750,000 jobs. They changed the barrio forever. Now people shop in these chains not because they preffer them but because there are almost no competitors (except, of course, another chain). They broke the ecosystem.
In civilised countries they protect these little stores, they get subsidios, I dont know, Im thinking of bread and cheese in France, you dont buy it a carrefour but in little stores. They are much more protected, they dont have this chain penetration. They still shop in small stores.

Matias, you seem like a really nice guy, despite the fact that we disagree 98% of the time. Just know that I'm a big enemy of corporate greed as you. That been said, reading your posts going on and on about stuff that sounds like you're a spokesman for the K government is very frustrating. Of course we're all free to share our opinion, but do us and yourself a favor. Stick to talking about Argentina, Uruguay or places you're really familiar with. That would help you avoid saying things like.

In civilised countries they protect these little stores, they get subsidios, I dont know, Im thinking of bread and cheese in France, you dont buy it a carrefour but in little stores. They are much more protected, they dont have this chain penetration. They still shop in small stores.

I don't know much about how that went on in France, but I can tell you that the US is the prime example of how WalMart took people's jobs and small businesses. Go to ANY town, say, Helena, MT, and ask people and former shopkeepers how many subsidies they got before WalMart ate their business. My friend, I know you mean well but I think you should be better informed and check the validity of your sources.

 

[Matiasba]

Matias, you seem like a really nice guy, despite the fact that we disagree 98% of the time. Just know that I'm a big enemy of corporate greed as you. That been said, reading your posts going on and on about stuff that sounds like you're a spokesman for the K government is very frustrating. Of course we're all free to share our opinion, but do us and yourself a favor. Stick to talking about Argentina, Uruguay or places you're really familiar with. That would help you avoid saying things like.

In civilised countries they protect these little stores, they get subsidios, I dont know, Im thinking of bread and cheese in France, you dont buy it a carrefour but in little stores. They are much more protected, they dont have this chain penetration. They still shop in small stores.

I don't know much about how that went on in France, but I can tell you that the US is the prime example of how WalMart took people's jobs and small businesses. Go to ANY town, say, Helena, MT, and ask people and former shopkeepers how many subsidies they got before WalMart ate their business. My friend, I know you mean well but I think you should be better informed and check the validity of your sources.

Sorry, I wasnt talking of the US but of european countries, where these huge chains dont have the penetration they have here. And of course, as it is well more regulated and they do protect these jobs, they dont get that much money. If you listened the link I put of Navarro, in one part he talks of Stiglitz speech when he got the Nobel Prize on economics, and he described 3 types of capitalism: the one from Europe, heavily regulated by the state, with thepresence of the state. The "sauvage" capitalism, with less presence of the state but where still exist some regulations (that would be the US) and a third type of capitalism, the pillage capitalism, characteristic of Latin America, where corporations make more money than in their home countries due to weeker states or almost no regulations. This is what is happening here, we have huge corporations that because they have strong states in their countries, and/or less corrupted, they go and try to explote other markets, being themselves VERY corrupted. (google what happened with siemens).
So, these countries do know how to protect their jobs, I went to Paris and had a hard time to find a supermarket. They werent everywhere as here. They have grown a lot in this country, first they were just a couple or five in town, then they went to every barrio, like the Carrefour express or the small Coto.
It is in fact an oligopoly, I dont know why people doubt they charge you what they want. We see with the central market (WHERE THEY STILL GAIN A LOT OF MONEY) that prices should be a ot lower.

do you know what this small stores people, groceries stores people, etc did when they got out of bussiness? they put a kiosko. What we call cuentapropismo. Go and try to find a kiosko every block in europe as you find it here.

 

[PhilipDT]

Back on topic... if anyone is heading to mercado central and wouldn't mind picking a couple things up for me, I will compensate you for your efforts.

 

[thorsten]

Sorry, I wasnt talking of the US but of european countries, where these huge chains dont have the penetration they have here.

Censoud (Jumbo, Vea, Disco) has about 300 supermarkets in Argentina. Carrefour has about 700 together in Brazil and Argentina. Walmart about 100. So even if we count all Carrefours to Argentina, thats 1100 supermarkets.
Now let's compare it to Germany. To be fair, Germany has double the population, so they should also have double the supermarkets, which would be around 2200. And you argue that the density in Argentina is way higher than in European countries like Germany, so it should be less than that...
Number 3 and 4 in the list of largest retailers in Germany (Aldi and Lidl) have about 4000 stores each. The two biggest retailers have more than 10000 stores each.

So you really think your argument makes sense? Or does Navarro and his investigative team have better data?

 

[scotttswan]

Go and try to find a kiosko every block in europe as you find it here.

They're called newsagents in the uk and they're everywhere..... We also have tonnes of supermarkets and a load of the new mini style ones too.

 

[Matiasba]

They're called newsagents in the uk and they're everywhere..... We also have tonnes of supermarkets and a load of the new mini style ones too.

The kiosko, or similar, here in Argentina is 100% product of the 90s, were unemployment reached 25%. The people who used to work for the privatizadas (Entel, Ypf, Segba, etc) were fired and with the dismissal compensation most of them put a kiosko. Suddenly, in 7 or 8 years, kioskos mutiplied for 10.
They used to have a quality job, en blanco, with aportes, sindicate, etc, and with the kiosko they went to en negro, monotributo, cuentapropismo.

While one of the best of Latin America, our numbers for empleo en negro peakes 25%. Cuentapropismo means almost no bond with the state, no retirement, no pension.
The UK dont have these numbers. Dont have cuentapropismo like we do, dont have empleo en negro like we do, dont come from a 25% unemployment or 2001 crisis experience. Dont have the poverty we have. These numbers in Argentina, this quantity of kioskos, are people who used to be middle class and went into poverty. Lots of almacenes, carnicerias, etc broke in the 90s where these chains played their part and kioskos is the way they survived.