Milei to New Yorkers: Flee "communist" Mamdani to Argentina

[steveinbsas]

All it takes is one article from International Living and the swarms will arrive. Just ask the natives of Cuenca, Ecuador or Medellin, Colombia. Milei ought to consider carefully that which he asks.

Or ask the natives of Argentina who were living in CABA (especially Recoleta, Palermo, Barrio Norte, etc.) in the early to mid-2000's, as "ar-ri-ved (a three sylable word as prounounced by my first Argentine dinner date) the foreigner," following the crisis of 2001.

All it took for me to come to Argentina was one conversation (in late April of 2006 in Sayulita, Nayarít, MX) with a woman from Buenos Aires who suggested that I visit Argentina before trying to move to France and a few hours of searching for information online (where I first encountered Internacional Living).

Post in thread 'International Living' https://baexpats.org/threads/international-living.40275/post-358682

PS: I didn't know what a DNI was at the time or anything about buying property when I arrived, but about a week less than six months after my arrival, I had a precaria for temporary residency and a few days later I had the escritura for my apartment in Recoleta, neither of which would be possible for me to accomplish today, as those "dirt cheap" days of getting residency, buying property, and living in one of the most desirable areas of CABA are OVER.

 

[wineguy999]

Hard to believe that people are still buying in to International Living. Less than a minute of Googling will tell you all you need to know.

 

[steveinbsas]

The people who can afford to move -- and may well do so -- will have serious money. They will have options, which they will weigh. I don't quite see the allure of a basket case like Argentina.

I first came to visit for two months in 2006. My fixed monthly income was just barely enough to qualify for the visa pensionado and I had enough dinero from the sale of my house in Mexico to buy a 68 mt2 apartment in Recoleta (Aranales 2078).

As my first dinner date (about a week after my arrival) said (with tears in her eyes) as she spoke about how the foreigners who had ar-ri-ved in the early 2000's knew nothing about the crisis económica. Like them, I was utterly ignorant about Argentina's well deserved reputation as a "basket case" and it's much darker history under military dictatorships.

All I had seen at that point (or would for quite some time) was "the Paris of Latin America."

 

[Ries]

the vast majority of the foreigners who came in the mid 2000s are long gone.
the expat population in Argentina, as opposed to immigrating venezuelans, paraguayans, and other south americans, has stayed pretty steady for a decade, and its something under 100,000 for the whole country.
Its usually estimated to be around 30,000 in CABA, out of 13 million.
The recent arrival of over 100,000 Russians, many of whom did not stay too long, may have bumped this up a bit,
but even if its DOUBLE the official numbers, and a whopping 60,000 expats live in CABA, its virtually unnoticeable in almost every neighborhood.
You do see tourists in Palermo, but hardly any expats.
Its just not a big factor in the economy, the housing market (expats- AirBNB is a different issue) or immigration numbers.

 

[mageesa]

the vast majority of the foreigners who came in the mid 2000s are long gone.
the expat population in Argentina, as opposed to immigrating venezuelans, paraguayans, and other south americans, has stayed pretty steady for a decade, and its something under 100,000 for the whole country.
Its usually estimated to be around 30,000 in CABA, out of 13 million.
The recent arrival of over 100,000 Russians, many of whom did not stay too long, may have bumped this up a bit,
but even if its DOUBLE the official numbers, and a whopping 60,000 expats live in CABA, its virtually unnoticeable in almost every neighborhood.
You do see tourists in Palermo, but hardly any expats.
Its just not a big factor in the economy, the housing market (expats- AirBNB is a different issue) or immigration numbers.

When you say expats I think you mean gringo temporary/permanent residents? I'm not sure I know who's an expat vs tourist in Palermo.
There are venezuelans and Bolivians who I suspect might go home if the economic situation reversed. No one knows if they're here for good; even in the USA I knew immigrants who planned to leave when they retired or could buy a house in their native land.
We're lucky there's not that many of us, otherwise we'd get blamed for rising rents etc.

As a former NYer, nobody is going to leave because of Mamdani, except in Milei's dreams.

 

[Ries]

for the purpose of this conversation, I would define "expat", particularly as used on this blog, as people from Europe or North America who often do NOT become citizens.
They are frequently blamed for inflation, rising rents, trendy restaurants, and general enshittification.

my point is simply that there really arent that many people like that, and most only stick around when prices are low in dollar/euro terms.
The number of "1st world" immigrants that actually buy real estate, settle down, and get to know the country is just not that many, and its certainly not enough to actually influence much economically.

Tourists come for 3 days or a week, go to Fogon and Don Julio, and then fly to Patagonia to climb or cruise to Antarctica.

I dont think anyone is claiming that venezuelan refugees are the reason a steak at Don Julio is now 80,000 pesos plus.

The times I have been to Palermo on a weekend night in the last couple of years, the vast majority of diners, drinkers, and shoppers have all been Argentine.

Its true, back in the late 2000's/early 2010s, you were more likely to see US/Euro hipsters there, but I these days, far far fewer.

the actual amount of New Yorkers who move to Argentina because of "communism" you will probably to count on your digits without taking off your socks.

 

[Música]

as if.
the difficulties of living the life you are used to in NYC without a DNI are way too much for the average american.
and the complicated processes of visas, buying real estate, setting up bank accounts, etc, mean Portugal or Ireland or Thailand are all much more likely candidates, but historically, this kind of migration, while the subject of many news stories, is only done by a very small amount of people.
the people who dont have any money cant move.
the people who have lots of money grumble, and pay the higher taxes.
to move to Argentina takes a desire to be in ARGENTINA, not just somewhere else. because its complicated.

Exactly, as someone who moved here from NYC in these last couple months, you have to chose Argentina because you want to/loved it/etc. We’ve been coming enough to the country over the years to know that this is where we want our next chapter to be, even with the country’s continued troubles, history, problems—which we’ve seen for ourselves and through our Argentine friends. We had been planning to leave the US for years and certainly other places offered pathways to establishing a different life that are a little easier for immigrants. But for us, there was something here that we more connected with than other places that could have been possibles. And it’s not lost on us that fortunately we are in a position to choose where to go when many others can not.

We’ve told friends in the states (and the people here we come across in our day-to-day who ask WHY come here) that we left NYC because we were coming TO something, not going away FROM something. And indeed if someone from NYC took him up on the offer, I think they’d find that the difficulties in establishing even basic levels of a new life, as you correctly pointed out, can be equal parts maddening, frustrating, and challenging. But for us (and people who come for another life), this is not a detractor because we chose to be here because we want to be here. It’s worth it for us enough to have patience—with ourselves and the bureaucracy—to find our paths to our new life here.

 

[carride]

Argentina’s Milei in the US: ‘I want to invite you to invest in this country ’ - Buenos Aires Herald

During his thirteenth trip to the States since taking office, the Argentine president met with businesspeople and danced to YMCA

buenosairesherald.com

The same day, he participated in the American Business Forum and the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC), a far-right annual event that he usually attends, which included a gala dinner at Mar-a-Lago, Trump’s resort in Palm Beach.

During his speech, Milei danced to the Village People’s iconic song “YMCA” on stage.

I certainly see him joing a band as an the occasional Village People impersonator. Either while still in office or later just for fun.

 

[Agribotics]

It's often been said that Mamdani-Leninism didn't fail. It's just never been tried. That's because Russia is the last place Mamdani-Leninism should have been rolled out because there's just not enough other people's money there to ever make it work. Manhattan is where M-L should have been tried first because there's more other people's money there than just about any other place on earth. So let's keep our fingers crossed and hope that the truth about Mamdani-Leninism finally comes out.

 

[Ries]

study after study proves that the rich are actually not very geographically mobile.
Aside from a handful of young crypto wealthy moving to Puerto Rico, and they tend to return in a couple of years.

Do higher taxes really drive millionaires to flee?

New insights help answer the question of whether hiking income taxes on the wealthy pushes them elsewhere.

www.cbsnews.com

there are dozens of stories and studies that disprove this right wing talking point.
The really wealthy in NYC are not moving.
And Argentina has never been a big second home destination for the wealthy- aside from a tiny handful, like Francis Ford Coppola, and Doug Tompkins of Esprit, both of whom are pretty left wing, there is nothing anywhere in Argentina like Uruguay, for example, where lots of the global jet set own property.
Swarms? Seriously?