More Americans Sever U.S. Ties as IRS Gets Tougher

[AlexfromLA]

LOL. Good times.

* waits for more walls of text *

 

[mini]

No you misunderstood me. I never claimed that his "Certificate of Live Birth" is fake. All I said that he never showed us his real (as in original birth certificate). The one that is provided to you at the hospital when your baby is born. It was you who said that hospitals do not issue birth certificates. This is clearly wrong.
Do you understand me now?

Hospitals do not ISSUE birth certificates. They may REGISTER births by filling out a from but this is then sent to the relevant agency to be recorded. This is just to facilitate things. If you are born at home you must go to the registry yourself and file, like they did "back in the day" and still do in some countries. It's the civil registry that issues birth certificates. I'm sure you have one where you were born.

And you did it again! It is the use of the word "REAL" to mean the one given to his mother when he was born that continues the farce. It is important to be careful & accurate with your words. And he is under NO obligation to product the document presented to his mother at his birth to prove he was born in the US. As I said before the whole issue a non-issue. But yet we waste our time on it because peoples ability to reason seems to have gone out the window.

That's it. I'm turning off the whole internet! Everyone go out to play!!!!

 

[orwellian]

I have two kids.
Neither was "provided a birth certificate by the hospital" when they were born.
some localities do this, others dont.
One of my kids was born at home.
NO hospital.
The county, in that particular case, sent me a birth certificate, that looks JUST LIKE OBAMA's, about a month later.

Yeah pretty obvious you don't get a birth certificate from the hospital if you don't deliver in the hospital. But what about your other kid? Was he or she born in the hospital and if so, did he or she get a birth certificate by the hospital once born?

What has been shown, on this thread, and nationally on TV and in the papers, is legal, proof of citizenship and birth, and exactly what you or I would get if we had a kid in Hawaii tomorrow.

So what you are saying is that in the state of Hawaii the hospitals don't provide you with a birth certificate? Can you please show me some proof of that claim?

And Choripan is absolutely right that, statistically, and numerically, the number of US citizens renouncing their citizenship is miniscule, and meaningless in terms of overall US citizen opinions towards taxes OR Obama.

Yes it's very small. But I think the issue here was that it has increased a lot since last year. And I was never saying that they are renouncing their citizenship due to Obama.

And, incidentally, whether you, or I, or anyone else agrees with Obama, he is still more popular in the USA, right now, than virtually any other politician in office. His poll numbers are not high, but they are higher than virtually any other national politician right now.

So, what has that got to do with anything?

There is a huge waiting list of people from around the world who would LOVE to become american citizens and pay taxes there. If you dont want to remain a US citizen, by all means, renounce, and make room for someone who wants the benefits, and responsibilities that are attached to them.

I am not a U.S citizen.

 

[Ries]

My first son was born in a hospital.
And the hospital did not give us a birth certificate that time, either.
The local government KEEPS the birth certificate, and I can, if I want to, pay for a copy. And right on it, it says, copy.
I, or any other US citizen, dont get the original, so I cant show it to you.

Same with Hawaii- here is your "proof"-
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/vital_records.html
It says, quite clearly, that they will send anyone a certified copy of the birth certificate, EXACTLY LIKE THE ONE ANYONE CAN FIND ONLINE OF OBAMA.
Thats all any Hawaii citizen gets. Period.

If you are not a US citizen, then,
A- why the heck do you care how many US citizens are fleeing from tax policies you have no experience with?
B- why do you care about any of this stuff? its petty, provincial issues, in the large part.

The USA currently has just about the LOWEST combined tax rates, and actual rates paid, of any first world industrialized country, so any US citizen who does their homework realizes its very rare that they will save money by renouncing US citizenship, unless they move to Somalia, or some other state of anarchy.
I am quite sure that, income for income, a US citizen pays LESS than an argentine does.

And as I pointed out on the other thread, the reason there were more US citizens abandoning US citizenship last year is because the IRS sent out a letter, reminding them that they needed to file one more form for the process to be finalized. So an extra 200 people, who thought they were done, all completed the process at once in the last few months of 2009. This is not an indication of a political movement, or a major groundswell of dissatisfaction- its better recordkeeping by the IRS.
The amounts of renouncers has gone up and down, over the last ten years, but the average has not changed.

Many of them are doing so for personal reasons- they want the same citizenship as their foreign born kids, they have married and decided to become fully integrated into their spouses country, or, as mentioned, they were immigrants TO the USA who decided it was not for them.

 

[orwellian]

Same with Hawaii- here is your "proof"-
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/vital_records.html
It says, quite clearly, that they will send anyone a certified copy of the birth certificate, EXACTLY LIKE THE ONE ANYONE CAN FIND ONLINE OF OBAMA.
Thats all any Hawaii citizen gets. Period.

And how does that prove that parents don't get a copy of the original from hospitals in Hawaii?

 

[redrum]

Well...I don't disagree with that Pericles. However, you might want to consider the number of times the posters above (Orwellian, Redrum, etc) have insulted people on the boards. I know I have been called stupid, crazy, naive, blind, etc by the above mentioned. Strangely, I don't recall them being chastised for their language. But yes, civility in discourse is always appreciated.

Citygirl I know that you and I have had our differences before over certain topics and perhaps the debate has become heated however I think your characterization of me in your last post is completely overblown.

I may not be a saint however I do not indiscriminately insult ppl on this board. I certainly don't use curse words like fuck, shit, idiot, moron...etc, as a means of normal discourse, not unless they genuinely deserved it anyway - and it would not be because of a difference of opinion. I know that I may have stated in one of my posts that your mode of thinking on a particular topic was "naïve" however that hardly qualifies as being an insult in my opinion.

To my credit, in one of your responses to me you stated that it was "utter bullshit" and that you "giggle" at certain threads/posts that you find silly or don't agree with. But hey I don't hold a grudge and I hope that you don't as well.

 

[Ries]

Huh?

It proves that parents DO get a certified copy, not from the hospital, but from the state, at any time after the child is born.

The exact same certified copy that has been posted on the internet. And shown on TV in the USA. And reprinted in magazines and newspapers in the USA.

"birthers" in the USA are demanding to see something that doesnt exist, and then, when told it doesnt exist, insist that proves their point.

But really, this is boring.
Lets talk about pizza, instead.

 

[orwellian]

Huh?

It proves that parents DO get a certified copy, not from the hospital, but from the state, at any time after the child is born.

The exact same certified copy that has been posted on the internet. And shown on TV in the USA. And reprinted in magazines and newspapers in the USA.

"birthers" in the USA are demanding to see something that doesnt exist, and then, when told it doesnt exist, insist that proves their point.

But really, this is boring.
Lets talk about pizza, instead.

Yeah and I am not disagreeing with that. All I was saying that the original document is the "real" certificate. Anything else is just a certified copy. That document that the "birthers" wants to see does however exist, but at least in the state of Hawaii you can't get an actual photocopy of it. Thus making it impossible for anyone to obtain it unless one was provided for you in the hospital.
And yeah, I definitely agree with you that this is getting boring.

 

[mini]

The USA currently has just about the LOWEST combined tax rates, and actual rates paid, of any first world industrialized country, so any US citizen who does their homework realizes its very rare that they will save money by renouncing US citizenship, unless they move to Somalia, or some other state of anarchy.
I am quite sure that, income for income, a US citizen pays LESS than an argentine does.

This is exactly why most expats never actually pay any additional taxes back to US. Even if the rate they are paying in their new country is less than they would pay in the US they would only pay the difference.

Some expats who are sent abroad by their company do pay back to the US but that is usually due to extras that are given to them related to "allowances". Anyway, most international companies foot the bill for that stuff.

I agree that the "huge wave" of 500 people probably are renouncing for reasons beyond having to pay taxes even though they live aboard.

 

[redrum]

Gotta love how conservatives whine for civility after they unload plenty of venom of their own in all sorts of creative ways.

man are you long winded.......

i think i have a better idea of where you're coming from after reading that post and it's pretty much how i imagined. it's also completely understandable. correct me if i'm wrong.

your anger is misplaced. you have this preconceived notion that the root of the problems with the country lie with the tea party movement. and that anybody who espouses similar rhetoric must be in league with them. this is exactly how the group has been purposefully characterized by the mainstream press and exactly how you have been conditioned to feel about them. this is done on purpose in order to polarize the mass public and divide us.

you are not reading/understanding my posts. i, like others on this board, am against obama for the same reasons i was against bush. Read that sentence again. Bush was a complete scumbag there's no question about it. And in my opinion, obama is the same. He's just better at hiding it. And it has nothing to do with the color of his skin. the agenda has and always will remain the same. it does not matter who is president. when the public gets tired of the right we'll switch to the left. when they get fed up with the left we'll go to the right.....and on and on it goes.

I brought up the birth certificate issue because I knew it would provoke controversy. I never said that he is not a US citizen. I said that I have doubts. And boy look how you pounced with real anger and venom. It was a classic, conditioned response on your part - whether you know it or not.

You claim that it is difficult to debate me. Why don't you stop for a second and examine your own actions/reactions. When I tell you that the global elite run our country and that both parties are connected at the top you say that it's crazy. You don't stop for even one second to entertain the idea that perhaps there is some merit to it. Instead you embark on a bellicose tirade, belittling everybody as morons who are insane or on drugs.

I'm trying to get ppl to focus on the bigger picture. Stop the petty infighting. Stop wallowing in the false left vs right paradigm. That's exactly what they want us to do. Our energies need to be focused on the criminals in Washington and wall st., not fighting amongst ourselves.

Think about it.