More Americans Sever U.S. Ties as IRS Gets Tougher

[orwellian]

LOL@ spending 1.4 M on sealing records. Hahahaha.

Who would honestly believe that. Oh yeah I forgot :|

Why is that funny? Bush's and Kerry's grades leaked. Why wouldn't he spend money on trying to seal his? And why I am still debating these 20 year olds?

 

[perry]

People are entitled to express a different opinion without being called nuts, crazy or other derogative terms . This is the classic response of those who wish to silence differences in opinion but at the same time they say they believe in freedom of expression.

Making these remarks says much more about the speaker than his target as rarely they answer the questions and prefer the cowards response of attack with venemous insults .

 

[citygirl]

Well...I don't disagree with that Pericles. However, you might want to consider the number of times the posters above (Orwellian, Redrum, etc) have insulted people on the boards. I know I have been called stupid, crazy, naive, blind, etc by the above mentioned. Strangely, I don't recall them being chastised for their language. But yes, civility in discourse is always appreciated.

Back to the original thread - I believe Ries posted a very interesting link - yes, here it is: http://www.slate.com/id/2252570

It is higher but 500 (or 700 as the Slate article states) is hardly an avalanche of people. In addition, more than half are naturalized residents who have decided to return home. It isn't exactly as though people are running to the exits.

 

[orwellian]

Well...I don't disagree with that Pericles. However, you might want to consider the number of times the posters above (Orwellian, Redrum, etc) have insulted people on the boards. I know I have been called stupid, crazy, naive, blind, etc by the above mentioned. Strangely, I don't recall them being chastised for their language. But yes, civility in discourse is always appreciated.

How is calling someone naive or blind an insult? And please give me one example where I have called you crazy or stupid.

I don't mind sarcasm and a bit of ridicule. I do it myself sometimes when I fundamentally disagree with someone. But these guys clearly don't want to debate. Choripan should spend more time reading what I actually posted than what he does in making up stories about hobos.

And why do I care so much? Really....

 

[citygirl]

Pretty sure naive and blind are both insults. And per your request:
[ 02-09-2010, 12:43 AM orwellian
Veteran

Quote: Originally Posted by citygirl
The only side effect I had was a sore muscle.

And extreme stupidity. Or maybe that was a preexisting condition?
__________________

 

[orwellian]

Pretty sure naive and blind are both insults.

I disagree.

And per your request:

And extreme stupidity. Or maybe that was a preexisting condition?
__________________

Haha, I remember that one. Yeah I did kinda call you stupid there but you see the smiley? A joke is not really an insult.

 

[Choripán]

People are entitled to express a different opinion without being called nuts, crazy or other derogative terms . This is the classic response of those who wish to silence differences in opinion but at the same time they say they believe in freedom of expression.

Making these remarks says much more about the speaker than his target as rarely they answer the questions and prefer the cowards response of attack with venemous insults .

Gotta love how conservatives whine for civility after they unload plenty of venom of their own in all sorts of creative ways.

And yet Pericles is correct to point out that we would all prefer to live in a world where political discourse was precisely that and nothing else.

But here's the real question. What is to be done when our right wing comrades routinely advance one false claim after another in public and then simply vanish when challenged on the factual basis of their attack? In reality, they don't engage in dialog at all: they simply launch inflammatory rhetorical bombs which are almost always completely fabricated. One bullshit assertion after another after another after another after another... After a while you get the feeling that this is more than just a series of conceptual mistakes. You get the feeling that these creeps are intentionally confusing public discourse in order to distract normal human beings from the real issues confronting America today. You get the feeling that they are not interested in civil discourse at all, but rather something much more insidious.

What you may not understand is that in the United States an entire conservative movement has emerged based exclusively on this slash-and-burn misinformation strategy. And they have made great progress in confusing the public because few people are willing to risk reproach by calling them out as the shitty manipulative liars that they are. Conservatives exploit the liberal commitment to civil discourse by making false derogatory claims about progressive politicians and then step back to enjoy the reactionary fireworks and confusion. The Obama birth certificate hoax is one example; the claim that people are running from American citizenship in droves because of high taxes is another. There are literally thousands more - new false rumors are injected into the public space every day. These people are not and never have been serious about using dialog as a means for arriving at the truth. They are merely trying to inflict as much damage as they can by misleading others who don't have the time to fact check their nonsense.

And though you may not realize it, CONSERVATIVES OF THIS VARIETY ARE DOING THE PUBLIC AN INCREDIBLE DISSERVICE AT BOTH ENDS OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM. They are trying to destroy the very possibility of civil discourse between the reasonable right and the reasonable left, one based on objective facts and carefully developed interpretations of those facts. Both left-leaning and sincere right-leaning citizens suffer as a result. Ask yourself this: when was the last time a conservative unloaded false bullshit in this forum that cast Obama in a positive light? They are not equal-opportunity mistake-makers, and their lack of sincerity gives the conservative movement a bad name. There is an obvious bias in their supposed stupidity that makes it clear that they are not stupid at all, but rather intentionally malicious. Thus they are constantly shopping for imaginative ways to tear progressive political leaders down because they can't beat them on the effectiveness of policy. They will never stop the bullshit until they become absolutely sure that they can no longer get away with their destructive, pernicious, willfully misrepresentative lying in public. And I am here to help them arrive at that new heightened awareness.

So this is what it comes down to: these people who are eating shit at the moment - redrum, orwellian, jaredwb, rad, bigbadwolf, etc - will be served even more shit until they drop the intentionally tactical assaults on the truth. If they want dialog, then they should post something that is at least factual correct so that we can collectively discuss its significance in a civil tone. That is the world we all want to live in. But we are not there yet. As I said before, if you want to be treated like a grown-up, there are certain things you must bring to the table. Intellectual honesty is one of them.

 

[orwellian]

None of us are conservatives, is that so hard for you to understand?

Do you really think Obama is a progressive politician?

Do you think that the increase in the amount of people renouncing their citizenship has nothing to do with taxes?

How do you expect me to debate you when you offer no ability to do so?

 

[mini]

But these guys clearly don't want to debate.

It's impossible to debate with you on any serious level if you demonstrate over & over that you don't even have any basic understanding of what is a fact & what is make believe. You also show no proof what so ever to what you declare. Stating "I've shown you proof" is not in fact proof.

That game is up. You are just a parrot. You find any old "alternative" topic & go spouting along. But congrats! You've have succeed in convincing me that you have not one independent thought of your own.

As they say in the valley, "you're clueless". I'm now tucking you back in the ignore drawer.

 

[orwellian]

And has it ever occurred to you that if you were to point out what it is you think is wrong that I, and others, might end up agreeing with you? For example, people post easy refutable lies about Chavez all the time. Even though it's time consuming to respond to, I do. And obviously by the amount of words you use in each of your posts, time is clearly not an issue for you. And do you know what response I am met with when I do refute their lies? Nothing, they become quiet and stop the debate, that wasn't really a debate at all. But guess what? I am not like them. Challenge me and I will either debate you or admit that I was wrong.