More Obama likes

arty

Registered
Back in 2009-
"Obama said on CBS' "Face the Nation" he could still keep a campaign pledge not to raise taxes on those making less than $250,000. He said much of the cost of the overhaul could be funded by eliminating waste and abuse."

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE58J18320090920

And today, well, what do you think-

"....people making more than $195,550 in taxable income ($200,000 in adjusted gross income) and joint filers with taxable income over $237,300 ($250,000 in adjusted gross income) would be pushed up from the current 33% and 35% tax brackets into 36% and 39.6% brackets next year."

http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/18/pf/taxes/bush_tax_cuts_rich/index.htm?hpt=T2

Just like the lies about ending the war.... Same job, different puppet.


edit- subject was suppose to be lies not likes
 

darmanad

Registered
arty said:
"....people making more than $195,550 in taxable income ($200,000 in adjusted gross income) and joint filers with taxable income over $237,300 ($250,000 in adjusted gross income) would be pushed up from the current 33% and 35% tax brackets into 36% and 39.6% brackets next year."
http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/18/pf/taxes/bush_tax_cuts_rich/index.htm?hpt=T2
Just like the lies about ending the war.... Same job, different puppet.
It seems you didn't bother to read the entire article that you posted. Your post leaves the reader with a false impression about the real consequences of the contemplated tax law change on those who earn less than 250K. Under the revised law almost everyone earning less than 250K would pay less tax. Only single filers with incomes in excess of 240K would have to pay more and the most anyone of those would have to pay is a big $295 ...if they earned the full 250K.
If you want to criticize Obama, make sure your facts are valid. Otherwise , you lose credibilty. From that same article:>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
How Uncle Sam's cut will change
While most people in the top two brackets would end up paying more if the cuts expire, some taxpayers at the very bottom of the new 36% tax bracket would actually end up paying less next year, according to estimates from the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation. That's because the lower tax rates, which high earners also pay on portions of their income, have been expanded.
For example, in the case of a person on the low end of the 36% bracket, only the highest sliver of income would be taxed at the new 36%, while larger portions are taxed at the broadened lower brackets, resulting in a net tax reduction.
Take someone with a taxable income of $210,000. Last year, they owed $54,000 in taxes (assuming one personal exemption and a basic standard deduction), but they would owe $53,512 under the new tax bracket, amounting to a $488 tax reduction, the JCT estimates showed.
Does $250,000 make you rich?
But once taxable income exceeds about $240,000, you could end up owing anywhere from an additional few hundred dollars to hundreds of thousands of dollars in extra taxes depending on how much you make.
Say you're a single filer with a taxable income of $250,000. This year, you owed $67,617 in income tax under the 33% bracket. Under the new system, you would pay $67,912 in taxes next year, a slight increase of $295."
................................................
I don't know if you are a US expat or what your income is. I believe that the US tax laws should be changed to put a heavier burden on the more fortunate, the wealthier, among us. It's something I learned about in first grade - like sharing the toys. Moreover,current tax rates in the US are not comparatively high for wealthy people in industiralized countries.

People who work hard and succeed, and even those lucky ones who are wealthy because their parents succeeded, deserve to have more wealth, but they also need to assume a larger responsibility for keeping the nation afloat. It's only fair. Reasonable people can disagree on what the exact numbers should be, but fair minded, reasonable people cannot disagee on the basic premise. If you can't see that, you need to reexamine your values. Maybe go back to first grade.
 

SaraSara

Registered
Well said, darmanad.

The $240,000 taxable threshold is very generous. Wish I was rich enough to be affected by the increases.
 

arty

Registered
Well, i read all that. Bottom line is that he is increasing taxes and went back on what he said. Regardless if its 200$ or 2000000$ per person depending on wealth. The top 1% of earners in the USA pay the majority of the taxes. Sorry you want to make excuses for the man, but he lied once again, like the rest of them do. Where is the hope he was promising??

He pledged that he would not raise taxes for ppl who make 250k or less a year. Now, when I was in first grade, I learned that if you promise one thing, then go back on it and do what you PROMISED you wouldn't, that makes you a liar liar pants on fire.
 

darmanad

Registered
The bottom line may be that he is raising taxes on the rich, but it is more than a little disingenuous to call Obama a liar just because those earning more than 240K have to pay a few bucks more, not exceeding $295. This minor exception doesn't justify condemning Obama as a liar as you do. It's what lawyers call de minimus and lay people call a "gotcha." That you seek to utilize this insignifcant increase on those poor souls earning more than 240K per year to lambast Obama as a liar is absurd. It demonstrates you have no sense of proportionality ...and that you have an axe to grind.
Obama seeks to allow the temporary tax cuts foolishly enacted by his predecessor in 2001 and 2003 to expire as per the law enacting them. Half of all the Bush tax cuts went to the top 5% of households, while the bottom 60% of households shared only 15% of the Bush tax cut crumbs between them. Instead of the promised trickle-down, we got stagnant wages for middle class Americans while the wealthy became fabulously wealthy. We now have the greatest economic disparity in wealth since just before the Great Depression. See http://www.faireconomy.org for this and other important data on taxes and the disparity in wealth in the US.

These tax cuts were enacted prior to the time the US went into debilitating debt to finance the fraudulent mideast war on Iraq and bail out Wall St. from the financial crisis occurring on Bush's watch. Given the budgetary deficits the US is now suffering, reinstatement of these tax brackets is necessary if the US is going to have the means to maintain, let alone advance, worthwhile domestic programs.

I am not absolutely sure, but I don't dispute your assertion that the top 1% of earners pay the majority of taxes (if correct, this calculation probably includes estate taxes as well as income tax). So what? The highest fed income tax rate today (39.6%) is considerably lower than it was a few decades ago. I believe it used to be as high as 90%. Some of that tax decrease awarded to the ultra rich over the years needs to be reassessed for the well being of the country. People earning $2,000,000 should be paying a greater % of that total than the people earning average wages. Do you have a problem with that? Warren Buffet and Bill Gates don't.

It's not clear to me whether you have a bone to pick with Obama or with the tax changes he proposes. If with the latter, you reallly need to check out the United For A Fair Economy site linked above. Learn a little about the status of taxes and wealth disparity in the US. If your gripe is with Obama per se, I suggest you identify a different issue upon which to criticize him.

p.s. If you did read the entire article you posted, but nevertheless styled your comment to paint Obama as a liar on his tax posistion, that puts you in a worse light. I thought you might have been careless. Now it appears you are deceptive.
 

jaredwb

Registered
I don't know if you are a US expat or what your income is. I believe that the US tax laws should be changed to put a heavier burden on the more fortunate, the wealthier, among us. It's something I learned about in first grade - like sharing the toys. Moreover,current tax rates in the US are not comparatively high for wealthy people in industiralized countries.

People who work hard and succeed, and even those lucky ones who are wealthy because their parents succeeded, deserve to have more wealth, but they also need to assume a larger responsibility for keeping the nation afloat. It's only fair. Reasonable people can disagree on what the exact numbers should be, but fair minded, reasonable people cannot disagee on the basic premise. If you can't see that, you need to reexamine your values. Maybe go back to first grade.[/quote]


BULLSHIT!!! My parents, myself, and anyone else that has worked their ass off to have a comfortable level of income carry ZERO responsibility to take care of anyone accept ourselves. IF WE CHOOSE, we can donate money to charitable foundations (and we donate a lot) that will use the money properly, not distribute it to lazy welfare crack heads that contribute ZERO to "keeping the nation afloat". What do they share?? How much money do they donate??

How is it fair that my hard work supports some other person unless I choose to do so?? That is like the teacher taking away my toy and giving it to some other kid...that isn't sharing that's robbery!

You and your misguided, entitlement mentality are a disgrace and the reason the country is falling apart.

And "fair minded" people would understand that EVERYONE should pay taxes, not just the wealthy and middle class.
 

darmanad

Registered
jaredwb said:
BULLSHIT!!! My parents, myself, and anyone else that has worked their ass off to have a comfortable level of income carry ZERO responsibility to take care of anyone accept ourselves. IF WE CHOOSE, we can donate money to charitable foundations (and we donate a lot) that will use the money properly, not distribute it to lazy welfare crack heads that contribute ZERO to "keeping the nation afloat". What do they share?? How much money do they donate??
How is it fair that my hard work supports some other person unless I choose to do so?? That is like the teacher taking away my toy and giving it to some other kid...that isn't sharing that's robbery!
You and your misguided, entitlement mentality are a disgrace and the reason the country is falling apart.
And "fair minded" people would understand that EVERYONE should pay taxes, not just the wealthy and middle class.
1. You seem to make no distinction between the nation and lazy welfare crackheads. It is myopic and even unethical of you or anyone else not to accept financial responsibility for paying the nation's debts and paying for items that the US needs, eg. infrastructure, education, health care, job creation assistance, social security, armed forces, energy programs, etc etc. Are you saying you and your parents should not have to pay for those things which your country provides to you, them and the rest of us including future generations?
2. I don't know what tax bracket you are in, but I'd be willing to bet that neither Obama or I support raising YOUR taxes. If you earn less than 240K per year I want you to pay a proportionately SMALLER % of the total tax bill. If you earn more you need to shoulder a larger share. Would you rather that Obama raise the taxes on less wealthy people or that there be no increase in tax revenue so that the country slides into bankruptcy like Argentina did some years back- not a pretty picture.
Unfortunately, I suspect that to follow your demand to allow you and others to CHOOSE how much they want to donate to run the country wouldn't be very effective. You don't really believe we should make taxes optional, do you? Know any country that does?
3. I don't think lazy welfare crackheads contribute very much to the tax base at all. I don't recall urging that we expand welfare payments to crackheads. Let me go back and reread what I wrote...nope, not there so upon what basis do you accuse me of having an entitlement mentality? In fact, I believe welfare programs ought to be carefully constructed to motivate people off welfare. I have some ideas about legalization of drugs, too (ala Vincent Fox), but let's not go there.
4. Contrary to what you insinuate, I do believe everyone should pay taxes. I think the rich should pay proportionately more than the middle class. What do you think about THAT?
 

fifs2

Registered
My parents, myself, and anyone else that has worked their ass off to have a comfortable level of income carry ZERO responsibility to take care of anyone accept ourselves.

Let so many expats that criticize the lack of community thinking here dwell upon this frightening statement. I agree noone has to carry the welfare population but basic principle of taxes is to pay for what you use...
 

redrum

Registered
darmanad said:
I believe that the US tax laws should be changed to put a heavier burden on the more fortunate, the wealthier, among us. It's something I learned about in first grade - like sharing the toys. Moreover,current tax rates in the US are not comparatively high for wealthy people in industiralized countries.

People who work hard and succeed, and even those lucky ones who are wealthy because their parents succeeded, deserve to have more wealth, but they also need to assume a larger responsibility for keeping the nation afloat. It's only fair. Reasonable people can disagree on what the exact numbers should be, but fair minded, reasonable people cannot disagee on the basic premise. If you can't see that, you need to reexamine your values. Maybe go back to first grade.
First off, the income tax is being raised for everyone after the bush tax cuts expire is that not true?

If you really want to tackle the nation's debt then start with stopping the government spending. start with not allowing the government to spend more money than it receives in tax revenue.

Now is not the time to be raising taxes on ANYBODY, rich or poor. The economy cannot be stimulated by raising taxes - just the opposite. Taxes should be LOWERED in order to stimulate small and medium businesses, which will translate into more jobs. Lower tax rates will equal more tax revenue for the government.

Your comment about the rich paying a larger share.....we all know that no matter what law is passed, the rich will ALWAYS find their loophole and avoid paying their "fair" share of taxes. This is guaranteed. So by raising taxes on the so called "rich", all you are doing is punishing legitimate business owners and those who worked hard and EARNED their money.

If you are going to penalize them and take away their incentive to work hard then they will simply move their businesses to foreign countries and the respective jobs along with them. You cannot rob from Peter to pay Paul. It simply doesn't work that way.

1. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
2. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong
3. You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.
4. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
5. You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and independence.
6. You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
7. You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
8. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
9. You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
10 You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they will not do for themselves.

- Rev. William J. H. Boetcker
 

jaredwb

Registered
fifs2 said:
My parents, myself, and anyone else that has worked their ass off to have a comfortable level of income carry ZERO responsibility to take care of anyone accept ourselves.

Let so many expats that criticize the lack of community thinking here dwell upon this frightening statement. I agree noone has to carry the welfare population but basic principle of taxes is to pay for what you use...
And what do us well to do citizens use more than others??? I don't use public health, I pay for my own private health care. I don't use any Gov programs, i.e. stamps, welfare, or any of the other ridiculous programs that enslave us. I pay for everything on my own. I also pay MORE taxes to employ people, how stupid is that?? I'm being penalized for giving people jobs and helping them make a good income??

So again, what do I use. Sure, I use the roads, etc etc and I have no problem footing my FAIR SHARE of the bill for maintenance, police, firemen, armed services and even the outrageous govt salaries of the morons that work at the DMV, Post Office and all the other useless government agencies.

I'm so sick of you liberal bleeding heart socialists demonizing the wealthy and business to feed your guilt and sense of social justice.

You want justice, then demand a FLAT tax. 15% of your income, period...for EVERYONE. And I stick to my previous statement 100%, I carry no responsibility for anyone other than my immediate family, my employees, and those that I choose to donate money to.
 
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