moving in october relocating from US

[steveinbsas]

Hi Patrick, In answer to your specific questions: soho is a great area...not so many high rise apartments have been built as there is a limit on building height, but nearby blocks abound with them. There are lots of restaurants and trendy shops, including furniture stores. If you like mid century modern (Eames, Bertoia, etc.), the selections and prices are great! Comparative shopping will pay off. Don't ship any furniture until you plan to make a permanent move and don't make that decision until you've been here at least six months if not a year. Renting a temporary apartment (on line) for a month or two is good way to begin. I found one in Palermo that I actually stayed in for six months before buying an apartment in Recoleta. I'll send you the (NYC) owner's email in a note. If you send me yours I can forward you one of his emails with pics before you contact him (I am not his agent). If you have questions about the location of any other apartments just let me know. Not all apartments advertised on line are in the best of locations, though it might sound that way from their description. I don;t have (or want) a car here, but others have posted that it can be difficult (and time consuming) to buy one here. Hopefully, someone will add some info on that subject.

 

[perry]

Interesting Forum and great advice. I personally beleive that anyone mving to any foreign country should visit a few times first or at least spend 6 months living there before purchasing property.
To answer the questions about Real Estate on this forum let me counter this by saying I work in this field in Buenos Aires and have seen a levelling off of purchases from foreigners of late . The strange thing is locals are buying heavily still and in my office they had a excellent month. What many people fail to realise is that close to 90 percent of all sales In Capital Federal are to Argentinians who do have the money to purchase in cash. Remember that people do not save here in Banks and the stock markets are not heavily used making property purchases their biggest investment.
I also have read on many forums that prices crashed in 2001which is not true for most neighbourhoods like Recoleta. Barrio Norte or Palermo. The prices before the crash were very cheap in Buenos Aires . For example in Palermo prices around 500 to 700 dollars a metre were the norm . Even in Recoleta in the late 90s you could have brought a 100 metre french style apartment for around 90000 US dollars .Prices today are very high I agree and in most cases are not jusified for the quality and view that you get from your apartment. Unfortunately I do not see prices depreciating due to the fact that demand is still high, available stock in sought after areas is still low and lastly Argentine property owners are very stubborn when it comes to the price of their apartment . In many cases they prefer to keep it not sold or even rented when it comes to their projected value of their properties In the area I live Palermo there are many houses that are asking 8000 dollars a month rent which seems very high for a Business venture. Would I take a risk and rent or buy a house in Palermo Viejo I would be on the cautious side. There are far better buys in Buenos Aires that offer better properties at half the price.

 

[soulskier]

Well said Pericles, and I trust your words as you are "apparently in the know". One other point worth mentioning about Real Estate prices in BA should be the boominng tourism market. As long as apartments are available to be put on the short term market and generate income, they will always be an investment for some.
Stan, FYI in Bariloche there is a common practice here that when a property does not sell, the price is raised to keep up with inflation. Never heard of that in any other market, but it happens quite a bit.
Patrick, I second Matty's comments, come on done and enjoy yourself. BA is a wonderful city with tons to do and see.

 

[steveinbsas]

Well said Pericles, and I trust your words as you are "apparently in the know". One other point worth mentioning about Real Estate prices in BA should be the boominng tourism market. As long as apartments are available to be put on the short term market and generate income, they will always be an investment for some.
Stan, FYI in Bariloche there is a common practice here that when a property does not sell, the price is raised to keep up with inflation. Never heard of that in any other market, but it happens quite a bit.
Patrick, I second Matty's comments, come on done and enjoy yourself. BA is a wonderful city with tons to do and see.

As usual, I agree with Soulskier: "As long as apartments are available to be put on the short term
market and generate income, they will always be an investment for some."No matter what part of the city, if an apartment can't be sold at a desired price it is still rentable. With no mortgage to service, most owners can hold on until they can sell.
"in Bariloche there is a common practice here that when a property does not sell, the price is raised to keep up with inflation."I did this with my house in Mexico which was for sale for five years. I raised the price 15% each year (compounded interest) and finally sold it for two and a half times the original asking price (and total cost). In spite of the high inflation there was also a substantial influx of buyers from the US, god bless 'em. Nonetheless, it would cost about 30% more than the sales price to build the same house now (two years later).
Well over a year ago, I was told by a BA real estate professional that foreigners were prohibited from buying property in Patagonia unless they had a "special paper" that took about a year to obtain. If this is the case, I would like more info. Is this "paper" the DNI...or something else?

 

[soulskier]

Steve, nice to see eye to eye with you on this one. You couldn't be more correct, with no mortage payments (93% of property in Argentina are mortgage free) and a demand for rentals, properties aren't going down in price.
Regarding purchasing property in Patagonia and other Zona de Seguridad areas there are many myths out there. The deal with buying inside the zona frontera, within about 100km from Chile, is you have to go thru an application process that takes around 1 year to complete. In the meantime, the best way to do it is to buy your property in a trust with an Argentine company, then when your application is approved, you transfer it into your name. I wrote a detailed post about it on our blog, you can find it here, http://livinginpatagonia.com/?p=39.
Patrick, we still want you to come, we just keep getting sidetracked!

 

[Stanexpat]

Well I going to have to continue disagreeing with the other folks on real estate here.Sooner or later it always comes back to affordability. Prices here have risen much faster than incomes. Currently high inflation is further eroding purchasing power. Sooner or later this will show up in property prices.It sounds like one or two folks on this topic are in the real estate business. Thats fine but I have never yet met somebody in this business who didn't think it was a good time to buy.

 

[soulskier]

Well Stan, like we all like to say here in Argentina, vamos a ver.

 

[danc]

Stan: I am not in the property business, but I do own an apt in BA. I simply raised this issue, because I hear so many on this forum "predicting" a massive property price correction, but most offer little economic evidence to support their theories. I could be wrong in my position, but I do humbly disagree w/you.
My position in a nutshell: i do not see a crash because without access to financing (mortages) speculation is non existant and property is the only viable investment vehical to locals.
Property prices could flatten and from what I've read they are. As a previous post indicated this may be due to a drop off in foreign investment, but local investment is surging. Yes, inflation is high, but locally investment options are limited. No one trusts the banks for large deposits, the stock market isn't a viable option for most. That really leaves property as the safest investment vehical to hedge against inflation.

 

[steveinbsas]

As Patrick did ask about buying an apartment, the discussion of real estate price trends is certainly relevant to his initial post. I do think that the price of real estate in Buenos Aires is unlikely to decline (in general) due to the cost of construction and the effect inflation has on it. When I arrived here 2 years ago, I was told (by well informed sources with nothing to gain from me personally) that "basic" construction costs in Capital federal were about 1000USD per square meter. The same source estimates those costs today are anywhere from $1350 to $1500 USD (depending on the finished quality and amenities of any given apartment). There are neighborhoods where the prices greatly exceed these figures, and that is the norm in every city. Puerto Madera tops the list in BA and is followed by Recoleta and then various sections of Palermo, but there are older apartments in other areas which are still available in or even below the 1000USD per meter price range. In real estate, location always has an effect on price (as we all know). As it would cost between 250-500USD per meter to "recycle" these older apartments, they are not currently "overpriced" when compared to building/remodeling costs. All buyers (regardless of their nationality) face the same choice, given the amount of money they have to invest: a smaller apartment in a better area or a larger apartment in a less desirable location. Some Argentines may have been "priced out" of Recoleta and even Palermo due to the fact that their incomes have not kept pace with inflation, and Puerto Madera may never have appealed to many in the first place. There may indeed be fewer buyers for the behemoth projects currently under construction than there were a couple years ago. Perhaps there will be some reductions in a currently "overpriced" new project here or there, but I personally doubt that a general decline in prices will follow. Inflation itself will insure that and inflation will not stop. Since the massive devaluation of the peso in 2002, inflation (in its true definition) remains the only means other than taxes (already cripplingly high) by which the government is able to confiscate the wealth of those who live here.

 

[soulskier]

Bingo Steve and Danc! You guys should take the rest of the weekend off, your work is done here!