Moving To Ba From Texas In January!

[ilovelucy55]

It seems as though I am getting a lot of personal messages as why not to move here, maybe I should listen...

 

[r2d2]

It seems as though I am getting a lot of personal messages as why not to move here, maybe I should listen...

If you are looking for motivational feedback on your move ... then you have come to the wrong forum

 

[ilovelucy55]

Im not looking for motivational feedback on a move. I originally came here to connect with other expats and in the process of that, i have been enlightened, shall I say. That is all I am saying.

 

[r2d2]

I have been living in Argentina for a few years (not in Buenos Aires though) and still like it a lot. If I had to chose between Texas and Argentina - then I would chose Argentina. There are quite a few people here that seem to be bitter about Argentina. So take those comments and messages with a grain of salt.

 

[ilovelucy55]

Yes I have noticed that, LOL. I haven't quite figured out why that is though..

 

[TwentyThousandRoads]

Two comments on the above:

1. Landlines can indeed call cell phones - I have a landline in my apartment and call cellphones all the time. The only caveat is that the owner of the line has to allow for the landline to call cellphones. In a temporary apartment, the owner most likely simply has this disabled because there is an extra cost. Even in a long-term lease, the owner may have a landline already installed which they will probably want the renter to use, and may come by default blocked to call cellphones.

2. Bank accounts have always been difficult to get here and now is even more difficult (I don't know how much, or if, it will change now with Macri). You're right that you need a utility bill in your name, but it doesn't stop there. The biggest thing (and this has always been the case) is residency (though successfully applying for residency gives you a precaria, which you can use) . I don't know if the law actually requires residency (it didn't use to) but it has always been required by every bank at which we ever tried to open an account. In addition, nowadays you have to have proof of local income via income receipts or tax payment records. This latter part may change with Macri in office, but I don't know. Also, now thanks to our wonderful US government, US citizens (even people who are dual citizens here and there) have to comply with FATCA, an additional hurdle that isn't so difficult to overcome necessarily. But definitely don't count on bank accounts here and doing things like wiring money to your bank account here - even if you have an account that's another level of complication,just to get money into the account from the outside.

A couple of comments of my own about living here:

Be discouraged if you are thinking that everything will be nice and neat, cheap, easy to do things. Don't be discouraged if you are looking for an adventure in a cool place.

There are many cool things about Argentina but living here for an extended time can be a pain in the ass. Since I moved here in 2006, I started out in love with the place, became a bit disenchanted after my first year when I tried to get out of temporary apartments and integrate a little more with society, and then found myself wishing that my wife (Paraguayan), our family (really, her three younger sisters who are as my daughters) and I had decided to move to Paraguay 5 years ago when my business here went south (the reason I came to begin with). Unfortunately, once you're ensconced in a place and start putting down roots, it gets difficult to pull up those roots for transplant

One of the biggest problems of the last 4 years seems to be going away - getting money here if you are earning from outside the country. The other biggest problem, procuring long-term rentals, is still going to be a big problem and I doubt will go away in the next decade, if ever, because of the laws that protect renters at the expense of the owners' security.

The political climate is more uncertain and often more turbulent than that of the US. It makes for uncertain times. We currently have a pro-business candidate which, if you're on the socialist side of things in your thinking, may seem like a bad thing, but after 12 years (and more specifically, the last 8 years) of living under a fascist/socialist regime, most people here (and I'm not just talking about expats, but Argentinos themselves) who believe strongly in social programs are relieved that the previous administration's policies were not continued with Cristina's chosen candidate, who lost the election.

The more time you live here, often the more you become cynical about the place, at least to an extent. It is heavy in corruption and getting things done, once you are really trying to do more than be a long-term tourist, can be time-consuming, difficult and frustrating and may never be completed. I'm thinking specifically of a refrigerator that I had that I spent more than 4 months trying to get fixed, finally worked for about a week, and then crapped out again. Or something as simple as getting the handle to the elevator door to our apartment fixed (I live in a building with one apartment per floor), which I am not allowed to touch because it's the building's property and responsibility - it doesn't latch and I catch hell from other building occupants at times simply because while sitting there closed the handle moves into the downward position and the door opens (it's an old elevator). The superintendent of our building can't work on it either (not in his job description, apparently) and the guy they've sent out three times now to fix it "can't find anything wrong with it."

A normal question I get asked when an Argentino asks me where I'm from and how long I've lived here - "Why???"

There are some things I like here more than in the States, for sure. As Stargatefix said, I'm not trying to discourage you, but living here long term isn't for the faint of heart when it comes to dealing with everyday issues of money (which seems to be a much lesser issue, as of a couple of days ago), a long term place to live, and particularly finding work here. And especially the latter if you are not a resident and therefore not allowed to work legally - and even if you are a resident, salaries are pitiful for the most part and obviously much more dependent on the value of the peso, inflation, etc.

It isn't going to be like living in Dallas (although me being from Houston, I can see why you'd want to leave ) but it can be rewarding. Just make sure you know what you're getting into before you make things relatively permanent. There are a lot of people I've known personally and a number of people on this forum, who have left because they didn't like the challenge. I know Argentinos (some of whom worked for me here) who did everything they could to leave.

And as I mentioned in another thread - if Cristina returns to power here as the president in 4 years (or 8, or whatever), I am outta here. I won't do another sentence under her administration.

I thought this was a great post, and fairly accurate, and definitely sums up the frustrations one can face as an American living virtually anywhere other than America. But --I've lived in Spain and Mexico, both countries where it takes sixteen steps and for-f*ing-ever, with every excuse in the world, to do essential things like set up a bank account or get a replacement for an ATM card or get them to connect internet to your apartment (assuming you've made it through the prior hoops). Somehow I'm doubtful that Paraguay's any better in that regard. It seems to be ingrained in all Latin cultures, and it's not exactly laziness -- I think it's just the flip-side of the thing we all really enjoy about living in Latin countries which is the easy-going-ness. Argentines face the same constant frustrations but their reactions aren't the red-faced, angry reaction of the frustrated northern European or American. It's simply to shrug. (They complain like hell, but that's neither here nor there -- it's not really meant to change anything -- complaining is just the national pastime). I have seen Americans go apoplectic over that shrugging itself, like, how can people be so apathetic? And honestly, those are the people who go back to America and rail about how the rest of the world's apathetic. What they don't realize is that the rest of the world is a human mess, not a well-oiled commercial machine; it's America, not Argentina, that's the exception to the general way things work in the world. Granted, each place has its own special perks and drawbacks -- in Spain, you can buy a prepaid, refuellable SIM card with 5GB of 3G over the counter for €10, which is pretty awesome... you can't even dream of that in Argentina. But if you get land-line internet in Spain, canceling your service if you move to a new apartment basically involves having to close your bank account and threaten to denounce the service provider to the court. In Mexico, surprisingly enough, the bottled water delivery guys take their job seriously and I never ran out (the way I usually did with gas bottles in Spain, when the delivery guy in the street would honk without slowing down unless you waited outside between 8 and 9am twice a week, or whenever you heard the posse of wild dogs behind the truck within howling-distance). But if you open your mouth in the shower in Mexico, kiss the rest of the week goodbye. And look - in Argentina, you don't have to waste hours waiting in the street for gas or water deliveries. You can drink the tap water, which is more than can be said of most countries in this hemisphere. That right there takes an enormous daily hassle out of your life. You'll never run out of hot water in the middle of a shower in this country. You'll probably never get sick from the food or water, maybe even less so than in the US. And if you do, the medical care is good. Generally speaking, life in Argentina is much, much better than in most of the developing world and is on level with some countries in Europe. (Central or Eastern Europe. The standard of living is somewhat less first-world than the Czech Republic and beats most of the Balkans hands down). I like to think of it as visiting Italy in the 1950s. If that appeals to you, and you're happy-go-lucky and willing to take whatever curves get thrown at you without getting yourself in knots over anything, you'll have a great time. You may never want to go back.

As far as being bitter as an expat, it's normal in every country I've ever lived in to run into those guys. I'm not a saint myself, and I'll admit the Argentines annoy me sometimes, but then again, so do Americans. And after you've lived in the rest of the world for awhile, Americans and their obsession with being served and catered to and kissed up to by everyone they consider inferior on a constant basis will annoy you much, much more. I get the expat's lament, the frustration. It just depends on your attitude towards things, and I think -- as unfortunate as a lot of the inefficiencies are, the good parts and the reasons why this country is more pleasant to live in than America are part and parcel of the same mentality that gives rise to the frustration. In other words, it's a package deal. You give up the orderliness of American life, and in return you get the individual freedom and chilled-out, unplanned way of life here. The people who stay are the ones who see that as a good trade, who prefer less structure, for their own reasons.

 

[mmoon]

I think the hardest thing ultimately for me here is the loss of efficiency. I now appreciate people getting stuff done fast and well like I never did before!
That all said, I can't give up Argentina

 

[ilovelucy55]

I was very happy with the initial research I did on Argentina. I originally was moving to Paris and got tied up in visa red tape. I have been wanting to teach English abroad for a while. I decided against Paris for geographical and visa reasons and wanted to find somewhere that offered the things that i would enjoy. 1. Good food, 2. Good wine 3. Relaxed people 4.Culture and history 5. A different way of life.
I am not afraid of being transplanted somewhere new, and having to adjust to new language and culture. I just don't want to have a terrible shock to where I am socially isolated or in a place that does not welcome American black people. I am not not trying to become rich, it is more the experience for me. I am a fairly happy person day to day, and I don't need to make thousands.
I quit my well paying job to do something totally different, and that in and of itself is scary.

 

[ilovelucy55]

It seems like money is a major hot button on this forum. Money is major, yes. Inflation is important to become aware of. But there is a level of frustration and tone behind currency issues here. I want to be clear that I am not looking to be validated or have anyone confirm my choice. I am just noticing the overall tone. Either way it goes, it has been very informative and enlightening!!

 

[thorsten]

So short story is "Paris didn't work out, let's go to Paris of South America!"