My wife (Argentinian) claims you can live "well" on $1500 a month in Argentina. True?

[Fiscal]

You will likely need more than $1500 to live well in Argentina, especially if you are thinking of putting your kids in an elite school. Also, your rental depends a great deal, as mentioned earlier, on whether or not you can rent temporary, or with a garantía. I recommend the garantía way if you are going to spend a great deal of time down in Argentina. Also, I recommend you consider Zone Norte, which is where I live. It's a lot more tranquil than the city, and you can actually get a decent sized house in a nice area with a backyard at $1000, and you have the river and other nice amenities close. I live in Olivos and in a car can get to Palermo in 15 to 20 minutes. It's outside of the capital proper, but in my opinion, much nicer. If you are working from home, you don't need to live in the Capital and go downtown on a continual basis, and a lot of expats just know the capital, and not anything outside. My quality of life has taken a quantum leap since I moved out to the north. You also have some of the best bilingual schools there.

Some of the actual numbers people mentioned here are pretty realistic. I imagine with $3500 to $4000 you could live okay out in a house to the north of the city, have a car, and if you're careful, have some savings from that, while sending the kids to a decent bilingual school (but if you send them to the best bilingual schools you will pay out the nose).

However, I recommend that right now, you wait for at least 6 months before trying something like that. The reason why is that socially things might get ugly down in Argentina in the short term. You don't want to be down here when they are burning stuff in the streets, rioting, and looting. Also, crime tends to increase quite a bit in these kinds of situations. I wouldn't recommend to anyone just this moment to even come visit with all the recent instability. It might turn out okay, but it could also end up similar to 2001. I might be going overboard here, but judging by my wife's reaction, who lived through 2001, I would be extremely careful. Don't put your kids in the middle of that, and my wife and I are ready to travel or relocate at a moments notice if things are super ugly.

Well, we would definitely do a garantia. We already maintain a 2 bedroom/2 bath apartment in my wife's hometown (12,500 pesos per month) that she secured with a garantia using her family's homes.

 

[Fiscal]

First of all, I recalculated the numbers from my spreadsheet (twice this time) and I got average monthly expenses of 3451(not 3300) this time. I must have copied and pasted something incorrectly last night. Here's the breakdown by categories on my spreadsheet (all in dollars unless specified otherwise):

Food (both groceries and eating out)- 872
Recurring monthly expenses (building/condo fee, water, gas, electricity, health insurance, cell phones, apartment insurance, landline, cable & internet, internet, Netflix, city property taxes, tax on personal income and property)- 1111
-our building fee is currently 4400 pesos, pretty cheap for what a lot of folks pay. Other costs this month: health insurance- 372 for both of us, 2 cell phones- 25, cable/internet- 80, Netflix- 6, city property taxes- 77)
-the building fee and the city property taxes you would still have to pay as a renter; they get passed on to the renter
-quite a few of these of the costs listed above are quite a bit cheaper than they were a year ago because we pay them with an American credit card
-we are 57 and 62, so our health insurance is probably more than yours would be. I said in my first post that we weren't with the top providers. We do have the best plan with our carrier (Union Personal/Accord Salud), and we are very happy- never a copay- but this company is not one of the ones that you see heavily advertised and that is mentioned on BAExpats.
Entertainment (books, newspaper, movies, theater, concerts)- 139
Charitable giving- 355
Cats- 67
Clothes- 161
Gifts- 24
Household (1 weekly house cleaning, computer related expenses, among other items)- 144
Misc- 85
Personal care- 492 (seems excessive, I know, but I don't have a separate column for medical/dental, so in addition to makeup, haircuts, 1 gym membership, running gear, glasses, misc. drugstore items, this also includes 3 replacement crowns -but only 1000 here!, and medication (which you will not spend on kile us older folks)

Thanks so much for the details. It is really quite interesting as it doesn't seem like BA is actually any less expensive than the United States at all, except for the cost of an elite private school (which is $25,000 a year) and rent (I pay $4000 for a 2 bed/2 bath).

 

[Fiscal]

A child born anywhere in the world of an Argentine parent is already an Argentine citizen.
A child born anywhere in the world of a US parent is already a US citizen
(Some form filling may be involved)

To the OP, why not take a sabbatical? So, you might take a financial hit from working remotely for a few months but it's only a few months and you can both see how you fit in. Don't sell your house in the US, don't burn any bridges. Just give it a try now and make decisions later.

I will be spending 3 months in my wife's hometown for paternity leave, and then one additional month working from my company's office in BA. I just hope my wife will want to move back to the US after all of this, but I kind of doubt it.

 

[Fiscal]

3,300 USD? More than double the U$S 1,500 figure and you OWN. You have no car; you have second tier health insurance. You imply that you spend modestly and don't mention children. One has to conclude from your comments that Fiscal would need a lot more since he presumably will have to rent and eventually will have steep private school bills. He may or may not want a car. Churchill is unfair in saying that expats here are being negative. I have known expats who, for personal reasons, have lived very modestly (like lower middle class or middle class Argentines) for personal reasons. For example, one woman had to stay in Argentina as she was divorced and the father would not allow the son to leave the country. She had few job opportunities but with the help of parents from abroad and the little income she earned, she was able to stay but her standard of living would be considered very basic in her own country. Others married Argentines of varying backgrounds. I know expats from countries like the UK, Canada and the US who married Argentines of different economic/social backgrounds. One who married into a wealthy family had an easy life but last time we spoke he was bored and wanted to return to his home country however the wife would not permit it. Others married partners from the middle or lower middle classes and have been struggling to make ends meet. In all cases that I know it has been the wife who was very attached to her family and unwilling to leave. These expats have settled down and adapted to Argentina and the way of life here. It can be done but it means flexibility, adjustment and a willingness to go with the flow which equates to unpredictability, instability and in most cases a lower material standard of living. While I'd say that U$S 1,500 is not realistic, double that amount might be if adjustments are made but Fiscal will have to understand what he's getting into. And there will be tax issues as well. If he's a permanent resident with a family he will have to justify where his money comes from. He should talk to an accountant familiar with expat issues in Argentina and the US. None of this is being negative. It's being realistic. Fiscal is talking about uprooting a FAMILY, not a solo lark in an interesting city.

It's not really uprooting a family because my wife has not lived in the United States for that long and the child hasn't been born yet. But it would severely impact my career as I would have to quit my job and get one that pays less (potentially $100K or more less) that allows me to telecommute. I do not have a strong desire to live in Argentina, but my wife does. She loves her country, wants to be close to her family and friends, and really hates the United States and what she perceives to be a more material, colder culture. I am trying to figure out if it can work financially and her primary argument is that it is substantially less expensive to live well in Argentina than in the United States.

 

[nikad]

arg

It's not really uprooting a family because my wife has not lived in the United States for that long and the child hasn't been born yet. But it would severely impact my career as I would have to quit my job and get one that pays less (potentially $100K or more less) that allows me to telecommute. I do not have a strong desire to live in Argentina, but my wife does. She loves her country, wants to be close to her family and friends, and really hates the United States and what she perceives to be a more material, colder culture. I am trying to figure out if it can work financially and her primary argument is that it is substantially less expensive to live well in Argentina than in the United States.

It depends on where you are currently living in the US, and where you would be living in Argentina. I would say that overall it is cheaper. I believe an elite school would be at most 12000usd per year here. Renting a very nice place should be about half of what you are paying now. It is a shame that she does not like ti in the US. I do not especially love it but at some point I know we will be moving there... There is no such thing as the perfect place, you always give up things I guess.

 

[Fooze]

Off topic really, but I thought I'd throw this in here. If your child is going to be born in Argentina, you may need quite a bit of paperwork from the US in order to establish the baby's citizenship. It will be MUCH easier for you to get what you need while you're in the US before you come. I had to get everything I needed for my son out of the US from here which was a real PITA.

Here's the embassy page that explains what you'll need to do:
https://ar.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/birth/

 

[another]

It's not really uprooting a family because my wife has not lived in the United States for that long and the child hasn't been born yet. But it would severely impact my career as I would have to quit my job and get one that pays less (potentially $100K or more less) that allows me to telecommute. I do not have a strong desire to live in Argentina, but my wife does. She loves her country, wants to be close to her family and friends, and really hates the United States and what she perceives to be a more material, colder culture. I am trying to figure out if it can work financially and her primary argument is that it is substantially less expensive to live well in Argentina than in the United States.

If I were in your shoes I'd do everything possible to have the child born in US. For one thing hospitals here are nowhere as clean as in NA. Even the private ones. And if your child decides to make US his home country once he is grown up, having a US birth certificate would make his life much much easier. I can relate to your wife's feelings, but being Argentine she completely underestimates the huge advantages developed countries have for a young person starting their career...Not only income wise, but more important opportunities wise. Family ties and social support have a huge weight, but the job market for professionals here is a joke. It's all long ways away of course, but it's all has to be considered.

 

[sergio]

It depends on where you are currently living in the US, and where you would be living in Argentina. I would say that overall it is cheaper. I believe an elite school would be at most 12000usd per year here. Renting a very nice place should be about half of what you are paying now. It is a shame that she does not like ti in the US. I do not especially love it but at some point I know we will be moving there... There is no such thing as the perfect place, you always give up things I guess.

In the US families choose to buy homes in communities where the schools are good. Local property taxes fund schools therefore the wealthier the community, generally the better the schools. Top school districts are competitive with a lot of private schools unless you are talking about places like Andover, St. Paul's and a few other super elite schools so living in an upscale suburban neighborhood gives the parents "free" education which they pay for through often high property taxes. Anyway, my point is that private school is not a necessity in the US as it is in Argentina. Fiscal is a high earner so presumably lives in an affluent area. If he's not already in a suburban area with top schools he can easily make the move to assure his child a good school that he doesn't have to pay for. COL in the US depends on where you live. If you choose New York, San Francisco, Seattle it's going to be high. The US is an enormous country however and there are loads of places with a much, much lower COL and they can be very nice communities. As for the US being a materialistic culture, I don't disagree but how is Argentina better? I see people in BA obsessed with how they look, the brand of clothes they buy, where they go on vacation etc. Seems to me just as materialistic except Argentines haven't figured out how to make as much money as a lot of Americans. Cold society? In some respects this is true of the US but are Argentines more than superficially warm with their kisses on the cheek etc. I don't know how well Fiscal's wife speaks English. Fluency makes a big difference in assimilating. How involved is she in the community in the US she lives in?. Did she join any community groups? Does she any volunteer work? Is she active in a church? These are some ways to get to know people and get beyond the surface. My guess is that it's not the "coldness" or materialism of Americans that bothers her, rather the fact that she misses her family. Fiscal is probably right that if they relocate to BA his wife will not likely want to leave and he and his future children will be stuck in Argentina with all its limitations. To get back to the US he may have to seek a divorce and leave the children behind. Sounds harsh but I think likely and I've seen such cases.

 

[nikad]

In the US families choose to buy homes in communities where the schools are good. Local property taxes fund schools therefore the wealthier the community, generally the better the schools. Top school districts are competitive with a lot of private schools unless you are talking about places like Andover, St. Paul's and a few other super elite schools so living in an upscale suburban neighborhood gives the parents "free" education which they pay for through often high property taxes. Anyway, my point is that private school is not a necessity in the US as it is in Argentina. Fiscal is a high earner so presumably lives in an affluent area. If he's not already in a suburban area with top schools he can easily make the move to assure his child a good school that he doesn't have to pay for. COL in the US depends on where you live. If you choose New York, San Francisco, Seattle it's going to be high. The US is an enormous country however and there are loads of places with a much, much lower COL and they can be very nice communities. As for the US being a materialistic culture, I don't disagree but how is Argentina better? I see people in BA obsessed with how they look, the brand of clothes they buy, where they go on vacation etc. Seems to me just as materialistic except Argentines haven't figured out how to make as much money as a lot of Americans. Cold society? In some respects this is true of the US but are Argentines more than superficially warm with their kisses on the cheek etc. I don't know how well Fiscal's wife speaks English. Fluency makes a big difference in assimilating. How involved is she in the community in the US she lives in?. Did she join any community groups? Does she any volunteer work? Is she active in a church? These are some ways to get to know people and get beyond the surface. My guess is that it's not the "coldness" or materialism of Americans that bothers her, rather the fact that she misses her family. Fiscal is probably right that if they relocate to BA his wife will not likely want to leave and he and his future children will be stuck in Argentina with all its limitations. To get back to the US he may have to seek a divorce and leave the children behind. Sounds harsh but I think likely and I've seen such cases.

I didn't know all these details about good schools and how they are funded etc. I only really knew that when people move, real estate listings usually name the nearby schools, and that schools are ranked, etc.

I don't think people in the US are cold, they tend to be more individualistic, but families can be very welcoming and warm. I would say some people " seem to be " cold, Work plays a very important role along with religion. I do not especially like the religious side of it. For being a non religious country, it is too religious... at least the East coast. And because religion is very important " you are what you do " so work is very important.

People are very competitive and I can't decide whether this is good or bad. I like it that there is diversity and they work hard to avoid discrimination based on sex, race and age. Service is very friendly but I hate it when they bring the check as soon as you swallow your last bite .

Is for materialism, I think it has to do with being very competitive and with this being infatuated with work. Argentine love to go on a shopping spree to Miami or a duty free shop. But they do it when on vacation generally. They also enjoy Xmas shopping, etc. I could not get to establish meaningful relationships as of yet while there, but maybe I have been in the wrong places or with the wrong people. I get the feeling the people on the west coast is more relaxed and friendly. I think people like to spend and enjoy and gift everywhere, it is just that garages in the US are way too big

This is something I have noticed: People give you good, fast and efficient service with a smile, but for the most part are not friendly or open ( when you approach somebody on the street to get directions for example ).

I have been to the US many times, and every time I go I learn something new. The first few times I loved it all. Then I slowly started to notice things that I thought were not great. It has been 15 years, I guess expats living here for a long time have been through something more or less similar.

 

[Fdipo]

the $1500 is not even enough to cover a monthly rent for a 2 bedroom apartment in a decent barrio, unless you luck out by some miracle. The rest depends on the lifestyle you want to have - car / no car, buses / taxis, eating out / cooking at home, private school / public school, etc etc etc.
3 people can comfortably live on another 1000 bucks a month, but if you don't want to count every penny add an extra 500. That doesn't include medical coverage, as the cost depends a lot on the level and company you choose. The dollar doubled in the past 4 months and the inflation hadn't caught up yet, and almighty himself doesn't even know how the dollar is going to behave tomorrow, let along a year from now, so the cost of living here will vary wildly...The considerations should be other than money in the first place - the lack of basic conveniences you take for granted in US, safety, access to a decent education, nightmarish red tape, terrible customer service and everything else our little community is incessantly complaining about here. Those of us who have been living here for a long time are used to tolerate the inconveniences, but moving here when you are young and expecting a baby would be a big disadvantage...My 3 cents.

This just isn't true at all, all the middle class professionals I know earn about $1100-1500 a month and they get along just fine. I personally spend about $1300 a month total, renting my own one bedroom apartment for $750 a month (but this is expensive - you can get much cheaper if you sign 2 year contract) and live a very good lifestyle here living on my own, eat out basically every day, do lots of activities, etc.

$1500 USD is 55k pesos, that is enough for a very good middle or upper middle class lifestyle here. With multiple incomes, it becomes even better, as rent is less of a burden on the salary of a couple vs a single. OP says he earns $5000 a month, which is enough to live like a King. Practically no one in Argentina earns that much money unless they work in finance, trade stocks, own businesses, or are famous.

My girlfriend lives on her own in a 2 bedroom apartment in an upscale barrio in CABA, she earns $966 USD per month at current rates, and she most definitely does not live a "miserable lifestyle".