New Family In Ba

[glasgowjohn]

Is this a joke?

unfortunately not

 

[ElQueso]

Hello people,

My family (wife and three children 9, 7, 2) are expected to come to BA in the summer. I have some questions about international community of people sending their kids to the Lincoln school. I would like to make sure we pick a neighborhood, preferred gated communities where my kids future friends are living. Is there anyone living there who is also on assignment?? Company will pay for rent so I'm very flexible on costs. Two main priorities are safety (as much as possible...) and international community.
Thank you for your support.

Uri

We used to live in a neighborhood about 5 blocks from the Lincoln school, left about 4 years ago. We looked at putting my sister-in-law in there when we first moved. She didn't have enough English at the time, so it turned out not to be for her. Seemed like a pretty good school.

At the time, they were mostly rich Argentine kids, there were very few foreigners attending. Could be different now.

We lived in a closed neighborhood ("barrio cerrado"), which is different from a "country" (country club neighborhood) as a country usually has pool, tennis courts, golf club, etc. Ours was just closed with a clubhouse. We only had about 50 houses in the neighborhood.

My experience out there was that the majority of people living in countries or barrio cerrados were rich Argentines, the majority of which had a place in town AND out there. You'd see sometimes where the mother and kids lived out in the country and the father in town and would come to visit on the weekends, or if the whole family lived together they'd all live in town during the week and spend the weekend in the country - in the summer time.

The traffic in and out of the city is HORRIBLE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE. That means bus or car, look at maybe two hours if you have to travel during rush hour - and rush hour can last as late as 10:00 am, for example. There is only one single artery to get into town. No alternate routes.

Also, a lot of the houses are rented out on a seasonal basis and stand empty about 1/2 of the year.

I found the people to be fairly stuck-up, but then my wife and the rest of my family is Paraguayan and they are very much looked down on in places like that, as most everyone has Paraguayan maids and don't see them as good for anything else (well, except construction work and working in vegetable stands or as dishwashers...).

I liked some things about being out there - but mostly because I like clear skies and grass and trees and relatively clean air. We moved back into the city because no one but me in our family drives and you pretty much have to have a car living out there. Although things are building up - when I was there the nearest supermarket was about 5 kilometers away but that was a small Disco. Jumbo and Easy were about 12 kilometers away. Just after we left, they built a big super market about a kilometer away though,

Most of the countries and barrio cerrados out to the north are surrounded by open middle class and poor neighborhoods. The streets, once you get off a few main roads, are gravel or just plain dirt. The middle class houses all have walls around their property.

You are sitting targets for thieves, to an extent. We would have attempted break-ins to the neighborhood at least 3-4 times a month. While we were living out there, we saw a number of nearby neighborhoods get broken into and contents of houses carried away. There were two big break-ins where trucks pulled up to the guards houses, tied up the guards, entered the neighborhoods (Mapuche was one, can't remember what the other one was) and loaded the contents in the trucks and took off. Not sure how things are now, but with the economy getting worse on a daily basis here I wouldn't think things would get better.

Depending on how long you're going to be here, depends on what kind of rental and how much problems you will have renting a place and how much it will cost. Someone mentioned $7000 USD a month - a bit over the top. We were paying $1600 USD a month for about 280 square meters: 3 bedrooms, a huge office, a huge kitchen, nice den, built-in grill (parilla) and best of all a pool, although it wasn't heated and we could only swim for about 5 weeks out of the year because at the time the weather just wasn't warm enough. I'd say that the same house, now, would probably go for about $2000-$2500 maximum, on a long-term lease, maybe as much as $3000-$3500 for short term. I'm guessing - the truth is, prices, at least in Recoleta, have been coming down a bit when looking at the blue dollar rate and the real cost to me (I earn in dollars and convert to pesos using the black market).

Ours was a two year lease. Houses all around us were rented on a temporary basis, usually for a month or two during the summer. Rentals here, whether in the city or in the suburbs, come in two year (long-term) leases and short-term (which, according the law, which is sometimes ignored, can only be made for a maximum of 6 months continuous occupation until they convert to long term). Long term rentals are usually not furnished, temporaries are furnished. Temporaries cost quite a bit more than long-terms.

If you are going to rent for more than 6 months, you will most likely need a long term lease, although some people do make continuous 6 month leases. It's not that they are illegal, it's that under Argentine law they automatically convert to a 2 year lease after 6 months continuous occupation, which gives the renters rights that they don't have under temporary leases. Those rights usually consist of the fact that the renter can stop paying the rent and occupy the house and the owner has to go through long legal proceedings that can take a minimum of two years to get them out, much more if the renters have kids.

Steve mentioned guaranties - that's why long term leases here need guaranties. A guarantee is a property used as security so that if someone stays in and doesn't pay, or there is damage not covered by the security deposit, the owner has quicker recourse by taking over the guaranteed property. Guarantees are hard to get because you have to know someone well enough to ask them to put their property on the line for you. Some owners will accept a large amount of money up front as a guarantee. Could be anywhere from 6 months to the entire lease up front, IF you can find someone willing to accept that in lieu of a property guarantee.

Most of the international community lives in the city. I was one of the only foreigners living out there. I've tried to find English-speaking friends for my sister-in-law (starting when she was 12) and only now that she has graduated high school and going to university has she encountered any - seems to me there are not too many expats with younger kids here.

As far as safety goes - the kids can play in the streets in a gated community, and are probably safer there than anywhere, playing outside the house. Belgrano, though, has some nice neighborhoods with houses and apartments and lots of parks, and is in the city, closer to "international community" although you'll still have the problems finding international playmates for your kids probably.

 

[Alicia karr]

Can't talk from personal experience but I did have American friends who were working for the US embassy doing two year stints, here with their families...they all sent their kids to Lincoln and lived in the Northern suburbs--Martinez, San Isidro, what's the other? Not in gated communities per se but in beautiful neighborhoods that had houses with walls around and pools in the backyard..,,in these situations a relocation firm was used and they even were allowed to bring their home furniture...I suspect that your company will be helping you with things like guaranties or finding long term leases...but yes, YOU should still decide where you ultimately want your family to be. By the way, it is very awkward out there without a car...that's one of the downsides. But I do remember there being plenty of English speaking kids and play dates with kids from Lincoln...

 

[internationalguy]

unfortunately not

Of course it wasn't. What's unfortunate is what I described.

 

[mmoon]

I understand the security issue, but also consider what you want your experience to be in Argentina…if you are going to be in Buenos Aires for awhile, I think the gated community/horrible commute to the city lifestyle will start to wear thin. I hear good things about Lincoln, but if you want your kids to learn Spanish and have a true international experience, they are going to miss out on a lot being in such isolated communities away from the real BA. We lived in Belgrano R, in a very secure building (never heard of any problems with break ins), and there was a great park nearby which was very safe and fun for kids. Plus, the train station direct to Retiro was a couple of blocks away, with the subway 10 blocks or so away on Cabildo. We parked our car on the street and never had an issue. It was a perfect middle ground, and there are tons of excellent schools in that area. Just my two cents if you are open to other options...

 

[ghost]

If they are here on a 2 yr gig then Lincoln or Baica are exactly the way to go. If you attend an Argentine school and return home after 2 yrs....they lose the 2 years and must redo. That would really suck.

 

[Kriegerf]

Hi again,

Thank you so much for the constructive comments. I hear a lot about the traffic but if kids will go to Lincoln (as a fact) I prefer to be the one commuting every day... It seems that the life in the north are much more quite and this is exactly what we are after. I don't get the thrill from big cities and prefer some trees and quite around us.
One thing which I did not completely understood is if there is some international community in the northern suburbs. We plan on staying in BA for 2-3 years and I expect my kids to hang around mostly with their friends from school. I would be great to know if any of you have kids at Lincoln or you know someone and help me understand where are the international "hubs" which will make our start much easier.
Thank you all,


Uri

 

[Matiasba]

Hi Uri dont take it personal, cause it is really not, and I dont intend to ofense anyone, but whats the grace of living like this? whats the grace of limiting almost to nothing the local interaction? how much do you know of other culture living in a bubble and sending your kids to an international school? how much of Argentina, the REAL Argentina, would you know?
Its like the people that travel, go to the Hilton and then eat at american restaurants, in China, in Africa, in Europe, and in South America. Is the basic conservative mentality, the same everywhere, no matter if you re in China or South America. The world is soooo much diverse and rich!

((Again, nothing personal Uri, be sure of that, just I dont get this people)

 

[Redpossum]

Hi Uri dont take it personal, cause it is really not, and I dont intend to ofense anyone, but whats the grace of living like this? whats the grace of limiting almost to nothing the local interaction? how much do you know of other culture living in a bubble and sending your kids to an international school? how much of Argentina, the REAL Argentina, would you know?
Its like the people that travel, go to the Hilton and then eat at american restaurants, in China, in Africa, in Europe, and in South America. Is the basic conservative mentality, the same everywhere, no matter if you re in China or South America. The world is soooo much diverse and rich!

((Again, nothing personal Uri, be sure of that, just I dont get this people)

If I could have Liked this twice, I would have.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Gated community?

The ultimate oxymoron.