Obamacare: Say goodbye to Grandma and the grandkids!

cabrera said:
Preparations for the closure of all schools comes as France switches over from civil to military government under the ultimate authority of WHO...
Luc Chatel, the education minister, refused to rule out the vaccination of all 12 million children in France with an untested and potentially deadly vaccine...
Envisagez-vous une vaccination généralisée des enfants ?
À ce stade, la vaccination généralisée n’est pas d’actualité. Les vaccins sont bien en cours de fabrication mais il n’est pas prévu, pour l’instant, de vaccination systématique d’une population particulière. En fonction de l’évolution de la pandémie, la ministre de la santé peut toutefois être appelée à revoir cette doctrine.
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If you can read French you will realise that the minister says only that schools could be closed if there is an epidemic and there are no plans to immunise children, but the govt is keeping an eye on developments. No mention of compulsion, because that is a figment of your imagination.
Where the farcical idea of a military government under the WHO comes from, I won't even ask.
 
redrum said:
. . . . the US standard of living is going to drop off a cliff. how can it not? look at the economic fundamentals of our nation. . . . We have invested barely nothing into new infrastructure or new energy. . . .
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An acquaintance who sits on the Council of Economic Advisors pithily states (at least in private conversation) that America has become a first-world country based on third-world economics. Even the most essential factors needed to sustain genuine economic development now are lacking: look at the inarticulation and false reasoning in, seemingly, ubiquitous evidence.
 
harpo said:
We Brits don't mind a good moan about our NHS, but that doesn't mean we put up with barefaced lies from foreigners. Looks like the barking-mad tendency in the US has stirred up more than they expected!
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/11/nhs-united-states-republican-health

Yeah well the USA HEALTH INSURANCE WHORES will stop at nothing to suck all the cash they can out of all of us - Their greedy lying actions know no limits. They lie about England's NHS, the excellent French health care system, fine Canadian health care system.... they don't give a damn, slime balls like them lie with every word they spew out about EVERYTHING and ANYTHING - Money is King, nothing else matters - F*** 'em ALL !!! They claim "socialism" is bad but dumping a very sick, homeless HUMAN BEING out of a taxi cab in front of a big city homeless shelter (true story) into a filthy gutter is kosher. What would Jesus do in this super righteous Christian country? Any right wing nut job preacher would tell you he'd give us all a great big thumbs up in the sky then kick back with an ice cold can of BUD LIGHT....

12 MILLION Americans were denied Health Insurance coverage in 2008 due to a pre-existing condition. That's 12 million potential acts of premeditated first degree murder. (I guess some types of murder is just worse than others. Ask any of these high I.Q. brainiacs - they'll tell you)
 
Dudester said:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/11/nhs-united-states-republican-health

Yeah well the USA HEALTH INSURANCE WHORES will stop at nothing to suck all the cash they can out of all of us - Their greedy lying actions know no limits. They lie about England's NHS, the excellent French health care system, fine Canadian health care system.... they don't give a damn, slime balls like them lie with every word they spew out about EVERYTHING and ANYTHING - Money is King, nothing else matters - F*** 'em ALL !!! They claim "socialism" is bad but dumping a very sick, homeless HUMAN BEING out of a taxi cab in front of a big city homeless shelter (true story) into a filthy gutter is kosher. What would Jesus do in this super righteous Christian country? Any right wing nut job preacher would tell you he'd give us all a great big thumbs up in the sky then kick back with an ice cold can of BUD LIGHT....

12 MILLION Americans were denied Health Insurance coverage in 2008 due to a pre-existing condition. That's 12 million potential acts of premeditated first degree murder. (I guess some types of murder is just worse than others. Ask any of these high I.Q. brainiacs - they'll tell you)
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If "insurance reform" was about extending coverage to the 12 million who can't get it because of pre-existing conditions, I would be all for it and join you in demonstrations in support of it, but I fail to see the need to insult a single Christian or be so sarcastic (if not blasphemous) as you ask what Jesus would do.

Seniors in the US have been fearful that they will be denied life extending medical procedures in later "stages" of their lives based on a government panel's evaluation of their "worthiness" to live (as defined by how much they contribute to the "good" of society0.

Apparently these "death panels" have been taken out of the proposed legislation (for now), but the fear remains.

There are a lot more than 12 million seniors whose lives that would be affected. Those who are Christian are no doubt praying that heaven can wait.
 
I would be so interested in knowing what "plan" you're talking about. Because right now there are several different versions being debated.

And seriously people - death panels? Wow - that level of deliberate obtuseness is just beyond me. One of the plans talked about "end of life" counseling. Have you ever had a loved one in end-stages of a terminal disease? It's heart-breaking and counseling can help. One of the proposed services would be a counseling service and/or hospice care, etc. Not exactly a "death panel".

There is healthy debate and discussion and then there is hysteria and fear-mongering. Anytime I see phrases bandied about on either side like "death panels" and IT'S SOCIALISM and OBAMA IS A NAZI/SAVIOR, etc - well, I'm sure you can guess where I put them.
 
steveinbsas said:
If "insurance reform" was about extending coverage to the 12 million who can't get it because of pre-existing conditions, I would be all for it and join you in demonstrations in support of it, but I fail to see the need to insult a single Christian or be so sarcastic (if not blasphemous) as you ask what Jesus would do.

Seniors in the US have been fearful that they will be denied life extending medical procedures in later "stages" of their lives based on a government panel's evaluation of their "worthiness" to live (as defined by how much they contribute to the "good" of society.
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I'm not insulting true Christians (I might be insulting phony Christians - a large portion of America's so called Christians - but the self righteousness, massive arrogance, and didactic nature they exhibit allows me to wink and say - "back at ya my little plastic man"). How do you spot a phony? One who doesn't seem to have a clue about what Jesus was all about - compassion, taking care of the weakest/poorest among us, not judging, not predicting one's after life - heaven/hell, not being obsessed about gays and abortion, etc.) The clowns out there who call themselves Christian but do EVERYTHING Christ would never teach or support are disgusting and greatly confused. I mean, how on earth do they get it so wrong ?!?! I'm Blasphemous by making jokes aimed at the phonies? Maybe my comments are going over your head.

This "seniors fearful" thing is unbelievable. We've had medicare (Socialized US Health Care for those over 65) for decades and decades and it's served us fine - no "Death Panel's" - no other propaganda nonsense. I mean, it's 2009 and people are STILL falling for this fairy tale sh*t - Hard to believe, I can hardly take it. Government evaluation if they deserve to be treated and saved or have had a long enough life and be given some "Death Pill" to swallow or put in some "Concentration Camp" to die. This silly garbage could ONLY be believed by a political party that brought us "the double digit I.Q. trio" of Sarah Palin, George W. Bush, and Dan Quayle. The PURE STUPIDITY out there is getting really SPOOKY.

BTW Steve, please explain to me how the USA doesn't have enough money to take care of ALL it's people with Universal Health care but has enough money to kill well over 100,000 innocent Iraqis in a nonsensical, made up war - I believe they're called "Collateral Damage" by the military pigs that need to dehumanize all the innocent victims of war with slick little terms..... Please fill me in - I needs ta know !!
 
Dudester - when you use phrases like military pigs, it really is highly insulting. I have quite a few friends who serve in the military and they are caring, compassionate and highly trained professionals (including 2 doctors).

Universal health coverage and/or insurance reform is complicated, expensive and will be hard to institute. However, it is IMO, absolutely necessary.

I once again would plead that we keep this discourse civil - there are enough problems out there without insulting people.
 
citygirl said:
Universal health coverage and/or insurance reform is complicated, expensive and will be hard to institute...
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Like adapting the Swiss, French or one of the Scandinavian models, or a combination?

Health care USA 15.2% of GDP - covering who and how well?
Health care France 11.2% of GDP - provides the best overall health care in the world.
Health care Deutschland/Germany 10.7% of GDP
Health care Sverige/Sweden 9.2% of GDP
Health care Netherlands 9.2% of GDP
Health care Danmark 8.5% of GDP - new heart? 20 years of intensive care?, etc.: free
Health care Suomi/Finland 7.5% of GDP

- WHO (World Health Organization) found that France (11.2% GDP) provided the "best overall health care" in the world.

- 88% of Finnish (7.5% GDP) respondents were satisfied with health care.

The Scandinavian models have copied parts of the Swiss, the additional private insurance to pay for private five star hotel type hospitals, which are also used when public hospitals lack capacity (and in that case: paid for by the public health system - thus teaching the public side to be more efficient, or bleed (pay) through the nose).

One of the good sides of public health care in Europe - often overlooked - is the complete transparancy of finances.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Comparison_-_Healthcare_spending_as_%_GDP.png
(note that in many European countries care of the elderly, not just health, is included in the amounts)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_France
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Sweden
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_the_Netherlands
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland
Switzerland: http://www.euro.who.int/document/e68670.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Finland

 
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