Obamacare: Say goodbye to Grandma and the grandkids!

[Dudester]

Is English your native language? I'm puzzled by some of your interpretations. The statement I made was "serving their country" not "defending" Someone in the military is indeed "serving" in their countries armed fores.

And thanks for the advice on being less naive and more well-informed about US activities but as you know nothing about me, my background or what information I possess, I will treat it in the manner it deserves.

I hope some day you realize that hyperbole and hysteria are no way to make a point and in making the sweeping type of generalizations you have, you will wind up alienating far more people than is necessary.

Well, so sorry, but you sound like every other American parrot out there, what can I say, maybe I'm just a simple minded retard... maybe that's it...

MOXON, you made me LMAO, that was the funniest thing I've read in a very long while - good one, excellent !!! Dudelish it is !!!

 

[windy]

1)In the USA 16% of the countrys income(GDP) goes in to health care but in the uk its only 8% and they live longer on average. Thanks to the national Health service.
And the same can be said all accross Europe. You are being screwed big time.
2)In the uk they have more small companies per capita than the USA because health care insurance is not an issue for British start up companys but is crucial for american companys and acts a deterant to new start ups. Result the American system is not pro small business but pro multi national giants, who it apears run the USA nowadays

 

[gusgutier]

1)In the uk they have more small companies per capita than the USA because health care insurance is not an issue for British start up companys but is crucial for american companys and acts a deterant to new start ups. Result the American system is not pro small business but pro multi national giants, who it apears run the USA nowadays

I can`t honestly get the logic of this paragraph. Can you extent your explanation?

 

[John.St]

The careerists in the American military (I know, from eighteen years' ununiformed service as son and grandson of military officers) almost invariably oppose entering into war. It is, in fact, civilians -- president and congress -- who send those careerists and fellow volunteers (volunteers to serve, not to die) to be killed and maimed in foreign fields.

Almost everybody who have knowledge of how real war is, are against it - it is horrible beyond description and often mentally invalidates those who take part in it. Those who are for a war are almost exclusively those, who have their "knowledge" from idiot "hero" movies.

 

[Dudester]

1)In the USA 16% of the countrys income(GDP) goes in to health care but in the uk its only 8% and they live longer on average. Thanks to the national Health service.
And the same can be said all accross Europe. You are being screwed big time.
2)In the uk they have more small companies per capita than the USA because health care insurance is not an issue for British start up companys but is crucial for american companys and acts a deterant to new start ups. Result the American system is not pro small business but pro multi national giants, who it apears run the USA nowadays

God does Windy have it down in 2 short paragraphs - this is 100% effing correct !!! America is run by multi national giants (and the military industrial complex). It says it's pro small business but that's bullsh*t and Windy points out why that is so so perfectly. Bravo Windy, rarely do I find it all put together so well !!! You hit the nail on the head !!! Dudester (a small business owner who's heard all of America's so called pro small business bullsh*t "pat's on the back" - AKA fairy tales, lies and propaganda. Fact is America is more of a Walmart kinda lover, screw the little start up guy.....)

 

[BT-Done That]

The issue is rationing of health care--cost reduction--who is going to do it? The govenment or individuals? I have a $1.5 million policy with a 5k deductible--costs around 4k per year from Denmark.
If they can't fix me for 1.5 million, I'll take the hit. At least it is my choice, and not the same people who gave us the post office.

 

[Dudester]

The issue is rationing of health care--cost reduction--who is going to do it? The govenment or individuals? I have a $1.5 million policy with a 5k deductible--costs around 4k per year from Denmark.
If they can't fix me for 1.5 million, I'll take the hit. At least it is my choice, and not the same people who gave us the post office.

Don't you get it?!?!? Without COMPETITION you have a monopoly and you will get ripped off BIG TIME with massive over pricing on EVERYTHING !!!! The more scared the Health Insurance companies are of something the more it's obvious that that's the thing to support the most. There's nothing they're afraid of more than losing their gigantic, insane profits. Post Office, yeah or Fed Ex or UPS... it's called a choice, freedom to shop for the best deals and not put up with secret monopolies... 4k a year/About $333.00 a month? No thanks, take it out of my FED TAXES and cut back $333.00 per tax payer per month on the military budget. BT, since you like to give your cash away toss me some spare bills amigo..... Why is this SO HARD to get !?!?!?!?

Dudester - Crestfallen and spinning the cylinder.... (click)

 

[steveinbsas]

The funniest thing about this "Obama 'death panel' that will kill everyone's grandma and Sarah Palin's little baby" conspiracy theory hoopla, is that such provision in the reform is acutally a billl introduced by Republican Senators Johnny Isakson (Ga) and Susan Collins (ME).

I don't know, but I bet'cha Rush, Glenn & Co. sort of leave that point out in their rants. ... but hey, ther're just radio entertainers.

This isn't from Rush or Glenn. It's from Paul Krugman (a "somewhat" left leaning economist) as told to Christiane Amanpour:

"Some years down the pike, we're going to get the real solution, which is going to be a combination of death panels and sales taxes. It's going to be that we're actually going to take Medicare under control, and we're going to have to get some additional revenue, probably from a VAT. But it's not going to happen now."

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/krugman-death-panels-vat/2010/11/14/id/377008

Does anyone remember when Krugman wrote this (August 14, 2009), referring to the "right-wing media complex?"

"President Obama is now facing the same kind of opposition that President Bill Clinton had to deal with: an enraged right that denies the legitimacy of his presidency, that eagerly seizes on every wild rumor manufactured by the right-wing media complex.

This opposition cannot be appeased. Some pundits claim that Mr. Obama has polarized the country by following too liberal an agenda. But the truth is that the attacks on the president have no relationship to anything he is actually doing or proposing.

Right now, the charge that’s gaining the most traction is the claim that health care reform will create “death panels” (in Sarah Palin’s words) that will shuffle the elderly and others off to an early grave. It’s a complete fabrication, of course."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/14/opinion/14krugman.html?_r=1&ref=paulkrugman

 

[darmanad]

Selective reporting which presents false impression. Here is more from the linked article.

"Apparently realizing his comments were inflammatory, Krugman took to his blog immediately Sunday afternoon to “clarify” his comments.

“I said something deliberately provocative on 'This Week,' so I think I’d better clarify what I meant, which I did on the show, but it can’t hurt to say it again,” he wrote. “So, what I said is that the eventual resolution of the deficit problem both will and should rely on “death panels and sales taxes.”

“What I meant is that:

"(a) health care costs will have to be controlled, which will surely require having Medicare and Medicaid decide what they’re willing to pay for — not really death panels, of course, but consideration of medical effectiveness and, at some point, how much we’re willing to spend for extreme care

"(b) we’ll need more revenue — several percent of GDP — which might most plausibly come from a value-added tax

"And if we do those two things, we’re most of the way toward a sustainable budget."

He then provided a link to a June 20 column in which he also described “death panels,” but only in passing and in a mocking way. The column is actually about budget deficits."

Steve... this kind of reportage is worthy of Fox News. Biased and stupid.

 

[steveinbsas]

You'll notice I included the link in my post and that, as you note, Krugman had to "clarify" his own comments. Newsmax included Krugman's clarification in their report. How is that biased or stupid?

Of course there won't be death panels, but end of life choices will necessarily be prescribed by government regulations and care will have to be rationed.

As Krugman said, "...health care costs will have to be controlled, which will surely require having Medicare and Medicaid decide what they’re willing to pay for — not really death panels, of course, but consideration of medical effectiveness and, at some point, how much we’re willing to spend for extreme care."

The regulations will be made in advance, but if there is no panel (or individual) to make the patient by patient decisions as to what care can be legally provided near the end, doctors will have look up the regulations to see if the care they would like to provide is approved (legal) and will be paid for by government. If it isn't, then it's time to pull the plug.

"Bye-bye, Grannie. You just aren't worth spending any more money to keep alive."

And long before it becomes a life or death decision, with Obamacare the elderly are going to get a lot less health care:

As Dick Morris was quoted as saying on the same website:

"The answer is to ration healthcare, with the government deciding who'll get hip and knee replacements, heart-bypass surgery and other medical treatments. And what does rationing mean? It means that the elderly will be denied care that they can now get whenever they want.

The Obama plan effectively repeals Medicare, putting a Federal Health Board between the elderly and their doctors.

This board will instruct public and private insurance carriers on what procedures are to be approved, at what cost and for what patients."

Here is the link to the full article: http://www.newsmax.com/Morris/obama-healthcare/2009/07/21/id/331734

"Federal Health Board" is certainly a much more palatable term than "Death Panel."

Even if there is no Federal Health Board by name, someone in governemnt is going to be making the decisions that have been the exclusive domain of the doctor and patient. I's too bad. Krugman is right. We can't afford it anymore.