Officially Done with BA

[GS_Dirtboy]

It just may be. The police here just don't like working and solving crimes.

That is possible. I've heard the same from my Argentine friends but have no direct experience. It does seem that the big crimes that do get solved are often not the result of good detective work. Remember the bank robbery several years back in Belgrano (I think?) where the robbers tunneled under something like 2 city blocks to get under the bank? The crime was solved when a girlfriend of one the of thieve's ratted him out when she found out he was "giving his attention" to some other girl. The police were all in line for the photo opportunity. However, before that they didn't have a clue about who did it.

Hell hath no fury like a scorned woman.

 

[JWB]

Well, after being in the States for the last 4 months, I'm begrudgingly returning to Buenos Aires (thankfully only for 3 months). For the last 4 months, I have read nothing but horrible story after horrible story about the current pathetic and sad state of the country...oh how excited I am to return.

What has happened to Buenos Aires, especially in the last 4 years, is shameful and we have only to blame the idiots who continue to vote for MORONS like the Kirchners and their goons.

I'm bringing one of my conceal carry weapons back with me and am not planning on leaving my home without it. Even living in one of the poshest areas in town gives me no comfort as the lack of security is out of control.

What a sad state.

 

[PhilinBSAS]

Wow, interesting. Anyone else have anything to say in regards to that? Just wondering.

I know two ex-pat 'boks who go out and now living/working in London who would concur and they quote lots of friends done the same

But apparently Zimbabweans can't even get out to live there in SA.

Former Soviet satellite republics in Asian get a bad press but so little economic activity dont show up on this graph

http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/12/corruption-and-development

Russia is not a great place

Is it nit-picking - is high corruption same as high crime?

Reason I ask is that the comparative Murder Rate (murder being the ultimate crime) is a different picture

see table at the end of this (although out of date)

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/rp99/rp99-056.pdf

Will look for more up to date equally reliable figures

My further impression is that compared with elsewhere the manifestly high incidence of robbery and armed burglary in Buenos Aires does not coincide with the same violence/high injury/death rates as other parts of Latin America etc

Cant rely on Argentine statistical office however.

Just me but Brazil - Sao Paulo seems way scarier to me!

Personally I wouldnt elect to live anywhere where there is a death penalty - too many mistakes.

Apologies to those who dont like having to link through. Is there a way of putting up jpegs here or is the only way via a hypertext?

 

[YanquiGallego]

thanks for all of the kind words guys, i really appreciate it. rest assured i will still continue to post on this forum and let you guys know the scoop on Santiago.

To answer a few questions, I honestly did not report it because, at that time, my main objective was just packing (the little I had left) and getting the f out of Buenos Aires. Besides I honestly have NO faith in the police and can safely assume that nothing would have been done and it would have just been a waste of my time and possibly another KILOMBO. The police in Buenos Aires is honestly useless, and I feel that this is the reason why so much occurs, because everyone knows they are useless and that no repercussion will be taken if they break the law.

Reiterating what a previous person said, perhaps I´m bias because of my recent robbery, but this much I can honestly say, as someone who has lived in three continents in cities which are historically deemed some of the most¨dangerous¨ and ¨crime spots¨ that in my 30 years of travelling, I have never seen as much collective, concentrated crime, scams, lieing, cheating, etc, as I have seen in the 2 years of living in BA Capital, and the worst part is that it is out of control. It has honestly come to a point where you have to second guess practically your every move and no one deserves to live like that.

I dont want to make any stereotypes or generalizations about Porteños, so I´d like to think this BUSCA VIDAS, anything goes attitude and behaviour is as a consecuence of the high level of desperation, distrust, and just general chaos occuring at this moment that makes otherwise level-headed, good people, stoop to acts of crime. Sadly, many of the locals also assume people from the US and Europe are well off and have endless amounts of money and that instead of coming as an expat to find work and a better means of living, you are jet setting and living the life of riley--And they want a piece of that pie.

 

[surfing]

To those people who think crime in BA isnt bad compared to world standards:

How many people actually report the crimes here. All the locals i know here dont, they tell me its a waste of time, and that the police either a) dont come. b) come to see what they can steal.
Just look at what happened after the train crash earlier this year, where 70 people died, it was out of the news a couple of days later, and what was done about it ???? So whats going to happen when someone gets robbed or killed here ???? What happened in relation to the french tourist that was killed for his camera ??? I know in my home country it would have been all over the news for weeks, and the police would have not stopped until the killer was found. But here: it was his own fault for not handing over the camera !!

I spent 4 1/2 months in colombia earlier this year. Before i went argentine friends were telling not to go because its too dangerous, lots of crime, i will be robbed etc. The only experience i had of crime there was: The hostel i stayed in in medellin had a button that could be pushed if there was a problem. Someone accidentally pushed it one day as it was beside the button that opened the front door, and within 5 minutes there were 4 armed police at the front door wanting to know what was going on. The other time 3 girls were held up at gun point, from what they say the guy wasnt interested in their possessions, he wanted money, they gave him 20,000 pesos (about US$12) and he went. This was 50 meters from the place i was staying at. They told reception what had happened and again withing 5 minutes the police were all over the area looking for this guy. I walked to the supermarket 30 minutes later and the cops where still checking the area 5 blocks away - i dont know if it was for this guy or not, but i guess it was..

Would this happen here ? NO. I have a friend here who owns a hostel in recoleta, the hostel was held up at gun point by 3 guys, he called the police, 2 offices turned up an hour later, and they werent even interested in looking at the video footage he had of the robbers.

So the big difference between here and alot of other countries, is you are basically on your own here to protect yourself, your family, your possessions. I have lived/worked/traveled all over the world, including a year in south africia studying, and i think this is probably the most crime ridden and corrupt place i have been (from the view point of a non-local). Not that i personally have had anything particularly bad happen to me in 6 years of being here, but i base this on the things i have seen, or had happen to people i know personally.

So the crime statistics are completely meaningless since hardly anybody files a complaint. I don't think I want to know how bad it really is; I probably couldn't sleep at night. I've thought often about the French photographer who was forgotten one day after being murdered in broad daylight. Have the same animals who attacked him killed other innocent people? We will probably never know.

 

[steveinbsas]

Personally I wouldnt elect to live anywhere where there is a death penalty - too many mistakes.

And why would you "elect" to live in a country where the police have neither the interest or the resources to solve crimes?

 

[Crema Americana]

And yes, the "rules to live by" here are not the rules to live by in Alabama, or in Philadelphia (most parts) and those rules might be a bit more particular for "Yankees." Many of these suggestions have already been posted here. When I first came to Argentina from my comfortable middle-class US suburbia I thought the rules were the same. My Brasilian wife quickly re-oriented my brain-housing-group to how life is here and in Brasil.

This is very true. I had to go through the same orientation with my husband.

Don't stand on the sidewalk outside of work with your laptop.
Lock the doors if you're waiting inside the car.
Unfasten your seatbelt while waiting for the garage door.
Leave the key in the door turned when you lock up at night.
Don't leave your car windows down at red lights.
Don't ever take your eyes off your purse - leaving it on a shopping cart, slung on a chair at a restaurant, or on a bench at a park or shopping center.
Don't walk around with expensive visible items.

It's seems like common sense, second nature stuff now... but when I came I hardly thought about any of those things and was a lot more carefree. And I'm still learning. Just last night we had a conversation about a new window we're putting in. I'm worried about fire hazards, sunlight, and efficiency... and he's worried about someone breaking in. For instance I don't like the typical heavy wooden horizontal blinds...

"Can't we use curtains instead?"
"But they can break the window and get in!"
"No, not with the bars on the windows." (which I'm not a fan of, either.)
"But they can shoot in."
"Wood isn't going to stop a bullet!"
"Well they can see in and aim... with the blinds it makes it harder."

I give in. Who has conversations like these?
Granted my husband seems overly paranoid, but we've never been victims even living out in a somewhat rough part provincia. :Knock on wood!: I suppose I should thank the security cameras, the dogs, the barbed wire, and the 10 foot hedge and iron gate for that. (His argument was further supported by the 2 min of sustained gunfire we heard last night.)

Crime doesn't seem so bad sometimes, but look how we need to live. Even in Palermo chances are you have porteros and security guards, perhaps even cameras - out of necessity, not luxury.

 

[fifs2]

That was me ribbing you.

On another note, leaving your keys to the cleaning lady is a really bad idea, as you learned. They are not your friend, no matter how long they have worked for you. When all is said and done you finish the day in a sparkly clean home and they go back to unpaved roads and leaky ceilings in the villa.

No matter how nice you are or how much you pay them they will always resent you. And remember, people don't view it as stealing here... it is "redistribution of the wealth".

As much as this may be true for the majority it is a misrepresentation of the many Argentinean gems you find in Bsas who are more honest than the day is long and would cut off their arm rather than steal a centavo from you. My own cleaner had my keys and free run of the house every year whenever we spent 2 months in Europe. She couldve moved her entire family in and I couldnt have done a thing about it. I probably wouldn't be as open or naive again if I had to look for somebody new especially having met her incestuous husband and heard tales of her delinquent step-children (4/12 died in prison or were murdered). But I trusted her to keep them at bay however and we had and still have a close relationship that is akin to her being my second mum. I admit I was lucky having the same lady with us for all 8+ years without incident. She'll be looking after my kids when I'm back in Bsas working. If course there are very good and very bad" people everywhere and knowing someone who represents the very best of Argentina in terms of ethics and honesty goes some way to wipe out the cynicism caused by dealing with those typically more corrupt.

 

[Meri]

So sorry this happened to you. What a scary, awful thing. Best of luck to you with your move....

 

[citygirl]

Wow, interesting. Anyone else have anything to say in regards to that? Just wondering.

Well, it's certainly been my experience that police here have about zero interest in doing anything. When a motochorro tried to rob me on the street, 1/2 a block from a police officer, he just stood there and watched. And when I asked him after if I should go to the station to file a report or just give it to him, he asked me why I would bother but if I wanted, take a cab to the station. Yeah - really comforting.

Same experience when my friend's truck was stolen. They actually laughed - in my face - when I asked them about the truck being found.

Yanqui - I'm so terribly sorry this happened to you. I wish you all the best.