Pan Dulce Don't You Think The Prices Are A Bit Crazy?

[nlaruccia]

I think you miss that the "high quality" clothes and stuff found in the U.S. and the EU are considered "cheap" in the relevant countries because they are made in sweat shops in Asia. I am not arguing if they are of better quality (they are), I am just raising a point toward considering these prices as "fair" prices.

A lot of things are cheaper and of better quality in Italy, but I bought them at discount supermarkets and they were made in China or Germany (milk, cheese, yogurt, jam, tissue, etc)

Anyway, I'd like to read more of these comparison between cost of living in Argentina vs the U.S. since the reason my husband doesn't want to move to the U.S. is that we couldn't afford the same standard of living as we do in BsAs (earning US dollars). I noticed a raise in prices myself, and with the blue rate going down this has meant a raise of 15% in out monthly expenditure. Some days, buenos aires no longer looks the "deal" it was when we arrived on last May (and this is a very short period to realize this, indeed!)

The standard of living is more than just about the cost of living and what you can afford. It's also about having security, safety, and tranquility. No matter how much money you make in Buenos Aires, you still have to ride a subway so full you can't breath, or buses with people screaming and fighting, or ride in taxis that are dirty and drive like maniacs. You still have to avoid falling in potholes, carrying your Garmin GPS in your purse after parking your car, and you can't even use your ipad or laptop in public. I won't even get into the endless lines and queues. Yet, we form strong friendships here and miss how openly affectionate Argentines are even in public. Se trata de costo beneficio.

 

[jbeas176]

my two cents on the cost difference between the US and BS. it depends on were you are in life and how you want to live, and where you live. I live in the desert in a city that requires owning and driving a car. cars can be cheaper here, insurance more expensive, gasoline is cheap now but wasn't 3 months ago. healthcare is expensive. health care plan, deductibles payed after your monthly fee, prescriptions filled at walgreens outrageous. I pay 75% more for drugs here depending on the plan you have. food can be more here. top sirloin steak at the market is 18.00. vegetables are varied and plentiful at reasonable prices. I was in BA first part of December and felt like the food in the store was about the same. restaurants I thought were way cheaper in BA. of course that depends on were you go. I was paying about 7.50 for a north American breakfast in BA. I pay at least 10.00 here. the cost of primary education can be free, but some opt for the expense of a private school. college is all over the board depending on your needs. could be 60,000.00 a year all the way down to 6,000.00 a year for in state tuition. the government will gladly finance it for you. cabs are cheaper in BA. a 50 peso cab ride in BA would be 15.00 us here. clothes are very cheap here if you stay away from upper end fashion lines. my Colombian girlfriend buys clothes on closeout and sells them in Medellin. I think in the end, there are trade offs for both. I love my desert and I love Buenos Aires. for now in my life because of medical costs, it would be cheaper to live full time in argentina. that said, I am older and at the end of my accumulation cycle. hope this helps as I am not very specific on actual comparative pricing.

 

[wineguy999]

Jbeas176 has some very good points, with which I agree. When we're not in BsAs, we're in Houston, where you live in hermetically sealed units, be they houses, apartments, or automobiles. The city is not conducive to walking (many parts of the city don't even have sidewalks), and I pity those who must use public transportation - it is woefully inadequate. The only cities in the US that have great public transport systems (to my personal knowledge) are NYC and San Francisco - two of the most expensive cities in which to live.

It's all relative. BsAs has many problems, it's true, but I have said this many times: In BsAs, I say hello to people in my building, and they smile, stop to chat, etc. I can walk down my street and be greeted by several porteros and shopkeepers in just two blocks. In Houston, I'm only acquainted with a couple of my neighbors. Of those I don't know, some are obviously anti-social, and some simply appear afraid to be cordial to strangers, even if they do live at the same address. I'd rather have the issues of Argentina, and have friends who are simpático.

 

[Ries]

There are some prices that are the same everywhere- steel, oil, plastics feedstocks, and similar commodities are priced globally, and every manufacturer worldwide has to pay the same for them, unless their local government subsidizes them- gas in venezuela, at a peso a gallon, for example.

And so, if something is made of these global commodities, it is going to cost a similar amount everywhere.
A barrel of oil costs the same amount on the global market whether you earn in pesos or in dollars.

Then, there are prices that are largely composed of labor, or based on local costs of real estate. These, obviously, will be lower in a place where a secretary makes 4000 pesos a month.

The problems in Argentina are partly due to the high cost of global commodities- an Iphone sells for $650 retail in the USA, and it sells for more here.
But the fact is, the US has decided to allow cheap imports in with virtually no taxes, duties, or frictional costs- so a chinese tv can cost a hundred dollars, a bangladeshi shirt ten dollars.
This has an effect on jobs, on the size of the middle class, on many other things- its not a free lunch- but, from Argentina, it looks pretty good.

Argentina, on the other hand, has decided, rightly or wrongly, to impose all kinds of taxes, duties, and frictional costs on imports- so the same chinese tv or bangladeshi shirt costs double.

And these same trade barriers, for some reason I sure cant figure out, applies to Argentine exports as well- meaning all kinds of companies that could compete globally, and hire argentines, are not doing so because its so hard to get anything but wine and soybeans out of the country.

I know people who have tried to export from here, and given up- it doubles or triples the cost to get something out. This is not helping the economy here.

Yes, its very hard to live here if you earn in pesos.
But there are a lot of things argentines take for granted that many higher earning people in the US dont have - cheap or even free medical care, free universities, and those buses- sorry, but you have never seen yelling on a bus- I ride collectivos all the time, and they are paradise compared to most US public transit. I have never once seen anyone go to the bathroom on a collectivo, or throw up- both quite common occurances on US buses. I have never seen belligerent drunks physically attack people. Never seen the swearing, fights, and theivery that occurs on buses in relatively safe Seattle. Never seen guns pulled. Never seen mentally ill people steer a collectivo off a bridge.
I will take collectivos any day over US transit.
I know a lot of people with good jobs who graduated from UBA.
A cheap undistinguished college in the USA is a minimum of fifteen thousand dollars a year- try spending that 187,500 pesos a year on your 4000 a month secretary's salary.

There are lots of things bad about Argentina, and lots of things good.
But I sure get tired of telling people that being able to buy cheap, disposable chinese electronics is not heaven.

 

[TomAtAlki]

So everyone, how was your Pan Dulce? We bought ours from Le Pain Quotidien and love it.
Happy holidays
Nancy

 

[TomAtAlki]

Things are not only problematic for those who earn in pesos. Although, I will readily admit that anyone living here earning in dollars is automatically better off than anyone living here and earning in pesos, without a doubt.

I would rather earn $1,000,000AR a month than $1,000US a month. All of these discussions have left out the most important point. How much you earn is way more important than what currency you earn it in. A person who is collecting social security as their only income from the states, even collecting it in US dollars, does not mean that that person is rich. If a person earns $1,000,000AR a month that person can always get dollars if they need dollars. It's just a matter of how much you pay for the dollars.

To all of the ExPats here, have a wonderful Christmas and a Healthy, Happy and Prosperous New Year. These discussions have been, are and hopefully will continue to be fun.

Tom

 

[sesamosinsal]

I would rather earn $1,000,000AR a month than $1,000US a month. All of these discussions have left out the most important point. How much you earn is way more important than what currency you earn it in. A person who is collecting social security as their only income from the states, even collecting it in US dollars, does not mean that that person is rich.

Exactly, Tom. When I first came here as a tourist, I'd often have people tell me, "Oh, but you're spending in U.S. dollars, so you must be doing alright." It's such an Argentine thing to say.

Clearly what Nancy was doing was trying to establish a reference of value for pan dulce. Next time she'll have to get a better sample size. The fact is that the USD, whether you earn it or not, is used as a standard reference of value for almost everything, especially here in Argentina. The GDP, salaries, pensions, etc. are all priced in USD by the government -- using the official exchange rate, of course.

The reasons why the price for pan dulce has increased do matter because not understanding them means that one doesn't understand the problem. The running idea in this thread has been that the price is "expensive" and a "bit crazy." In other words, the panaderos must be taking advantage of you and price gouging. However, I can almost guarantee you that the price in dollars (using an average of the blue, the official+35 percent, and the CCL) has been almost constant over the years.

If my hypothesis is correct -- that a nice pan dulce from a panaderia cost ~140-160 pesos last year (can anyone confirm!?) -- then this thread should really be titled "Salaries don't you think they are a bit crazy" or "Inflation don't you think it's a bit crazy".

 

[nlaruccia]

So everyone, how was your Pan Dulce? We bought ours from Le Pain Quotidien and love it.
Happy holidays
Nancy

My economic upper middle class cousins who normally by a pan dulce casero and turron de mani from Spain, and only bought a Coto pan dulce and locally made turron this year. No one wanted to eat the packaged pan dulce. I don't blame them. Thank goodness I took a a crumble apple pie from a good bakery. My cousins were commenting on how expensive nuts and almonds and joking how we were going to have to split up the almonds, one each person. Jajaja. And there were almost no fireworks. I remember twenty years ago on Christmas Eve and New Years Eve that it was like Beirut outside at midnight.

 

[Ries]

I was in Villa Crespo last night, and it was still like Beirut.
In fact, at midnight, kids were lighting off big mortars right in the middle of Santa Fe, in front of Alto Palermo.
I think it depends on the barrio.

 

[nikad]

I was in Villa Crespo last night, and it was still like Beirut.
In fact, at midnight, kids were lighting off big mortars right in the middle of Santa Fe, in front of Alto Palermo.
I think it depends on the barrio.

( while eating pan dulce atm ) This is true, the poorer the barrio the crazier the fireworks. In Recoleta people are just bitter ( I live in Recoleta )