Paraguay Versus Argentina As An Expat Destination?

[RodalfoWalsh]

I don't like the weather in Buenos Aires but I can tolerate it. Asuncion is unbearable.

 

[TWB103]

i love Asuncion big time.. love hanging out there. very friendly women..

Yawn.

 

[Idois]

The advantages to Argentina, to me, include an educated, hip and worldly population, interesting art, music, literature, fashion, film, dance,architecture, and design communities, an expanding food scene, the cultural and historical uniqueness of a hybrid European/Latin American country, a unique world class city, and personality.

I am curious about two characteristics from the above list: educated and worldly. I admit that, 'educated' caught me by surprise, because I associate 'educated' with 'performance' in the education system, and Argentina has a chronic record of near-the-bottom performance on PISA.

So, to clarify, please, when you say 'educated' do you mean with access to public education or are you referring to something else?
As for 'worldly', I am very curious to know what you mean by that.

Thanks for clarifying!

 

[Montauk_Project]

@Idois I´m not sure how many Argentines you have talked to about intellectual topics. While the generation curently in school might be getting a substandard education, Argentina used to have a very good public school system in which all social classes were educated in public schools. So people who are adults are a product of this system. I have found that many people, of all ages and all walks of life, have a strong interest in culture and learning. They will fill art cinemas, concert halls, take classes, and also are one of the few countries on earth where newspaper and magazine reading is holding steady/growing. I am constantly surprised by people who work in one field but have studied another. I also found that in US culture being a good student is being a "nerd" and therefore looked down upon, but in Argentina they generally like smart people and respect them. Argentina has one of the largest theater scenes in the world, and a lot of it is outright bizzare and experimental. Even their love of analysis has to do with a desire to know oneself.
I would call this educated, as to contrast with intellegence that has more to do with problem solving/working/surviving and can be found in cultures where no formal schooling exists.
One of the reasons why I like living in Argentina is that I don´t have to hide my education or intellectual curiousity, which I had to do in the states (especially being female, where in the US there is the belief that being smart makes you less attractive).

 

[Idois]

Thank you Montauk_Project for sharing your take on the description 'educated'. I was curious what is it that the author of the post had in mind when he used the words 'educated' and 'worldly'.

As for your statement '...[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]I´m not sure how many Argentines you have talked to about intellectual topics...' [/background]was this intended to be a genuine question (there was no ? at the end) or were you in some way trying to put me down? If you are genuinely interested I will gladly respond.

 

[Ries]

Okay-
what I mean is that the Argentines that I meet, and the ones that are my friends, are often very well educated. I know lots of Argentines who are college professors, for example, and most have multiple degrees. Compared to americans I know in the USA, I would say most of my argentine friends are better educated, better read, and more knowledgeable about things outside of their immediate course of study.
Most Argentines I know have read literature beyond simply Argentine writers, for example. Most americans have not.
Most Argentines I know, if you start talking about music, are aware of american music, english music, european music, and argentine music as well.

I know a bunch of Argentines involved in fashion, for example- and their knowledge is global, generally. They pay attention to what is going on around the world.
I know a lot of Argentines in the music industry, and most tour abroad, listen to bands from all over, and often they have releases on foreign labels.
Even if they are dirt poor, they have usually played in Uruguay, often in Chile or Brazil.

This is what I am referring to.

Obviously, to a degree, this is a class thing- the poorest people are less likely to be as aware of what is going on outside of Argentina. But even some friends of mine who are from quite poor families have been able to attend university- something that, again, rarely happens in the USA.

I talk to Argentines about intellectual topics all the time. I talk to cabdrivers about intellectual topics, for that matter- and a surprising amount of them have college degrees.
Free university education has a wider influence on Argentina than you might think, especially compared to the USA.

 

[Idois]

Free university education has a wider influence on Argentina than you might think, especially compared to the USA.

Thanks for clarifying, Ries! I am always curious as to what people mean when they say things. We all hail from very diverse backgrounds and express our realities differently, and I am very fascinated on what aspect of reality one puts emphasis when speaking about something as general as (in the example of this post) 'educated', 'worldly', 'intellectual', etc.

As for your last statement, especially the part where you write '...wider...than you might think...', did you really mean to imply that 1. you know what I think about the influence of a 'free university education' in Argentina (and the US) and that 2. I know less than what it actually is?

Thanks for clarifying!

 

[Hybrid Ambassador]

Hmmm, Questions answered with another question..An open sales approach, good sales people answers a question with another question. Then at the end, Gotch ya, sale made !

 

[Montauk_Project]

It was intended to be a question as I don´t know if you have done much talking, speak spanish, etc. Also the circles one runs into will change your perceptions. While most of my friends are artists/filmmakers/film techs, as a documentary filmmaker I have also talked to and interviewed many people outside of my social circle, from criminals to people living in villas. When I made a film in the Villa 31 I always met people who spent their (very little) free time studying languages, video making, art, music. Of course, I am talking in generalities. And while Argentina might not test well (and perhaps educational standards are declining) I am very impressed by the teenagers who have invented some wonderful new technologies--technical education seems to be doing quite well.
I think Ries is correct in that people here tend to know a lot more about the literature, cinema and art of other countries.

 

[camberiu]

I think what I reading here is a common misconception that I frequently see with many Americans. It is not the the Argentines are more educated and wordily. It is that here, the top "5%" of the country if you will, is much more accessible to the typical American than the "top 5%" in the US. Here the local elite lives in Palermo, where most expats can afford to live. And being an expat automatically grants you a local social status that many of us would not be able to dream about having in the US.

"[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]I think Ries is correct in that people here tend to know a lot more about the literature, cinema and art of other countries. "[/background]

Maybe. Or maybe the people that you are able to interact /socialize with here know a lot more about literature, cinema etc than the typical social circles you had access to in the USA. Remember that a rich person here would be considered at most an upper middle class person in the US. The top Argentine movie director lives somewhere in Palermo or Recoleta and drives at most a Citroen. He is relatively accessible to an expat from the US or Europe. Where does Ridley Scott lives? How many of us has any hopes of ever socializing with a Ridley Scott or a Francis Ford Coppola? The same applies to pretty much any other type of artist or writer, excluding TV personalities or football athletes. Top college professors in Argentina or top intellectuals? There are all in Zona norte frequenting the same spaces that most of us do.

It is not that they are smarter or better educated. Is that here, we have access to their best, which most (if not all) of us don't have to the same in the US.