Pasting and Passing On a Subtle Message from a Friend Here

mendozanow

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Pasted from message tinight I got from a friend:

-----------------------------------------------

SSSShhhhh....

Okay, I am only writing this, most reluctantly, because the liitle angel on my right shoulder has been nagging me (the little devil on my left shoulder is saying:"...aww f&*^^k it, lettem findout fer themselves....). That, and the copious amounts of vino malbec this evening. Could be nothing, but thought I would quietly issue a little possible caution.Queitly, because I greatly love the Argentineans I live amongst, they are great people and it is a great land, that is why I live here.

The usual rhetoric from la presidenta Cristina. yunno, the Malvinas (i won;t use theparallell "F" word here, don' twanna raise too many hackles about that stupid little w#r). Usual, especially with the election coming up, easy political hay. However, with added fire of the comments from the PM from yunnowhere, there has been a subtle, yet perceptible shift in the ambience. Could be the added stress of the volcano and other things as well.

Anyway, an Argentine English teacher colleague, an anglophile, comes into school yesterday wearing her Union Jack jacket, never had a problem before other than a few harmless jokes, said that several people shook their fists at her, and one women stoped her in the street and told her not to wear that, anger masked as concern. She phoned her boyfriend in the teacher's room asking him to bring another jacket by the school.

Stupid talks shows let fn the tube on the side of the room last night while visiting some friends.. Stupid but denigrating jokes about the British and the US in general. Harmless in themselves, but they never did it themselves. This morning , some political talk shows on the radio and television, a little more strident, insulting Brits and Yanks in a subtle way.

At noon, listening to my favourite stupid local comedian on local Mendoza TV, again insulting anglos, never did this before.

Today, friends subtley nudged , suggesting I be careful with my English on the streets. Gentle concern, not overdone, but that has never happened before.

With Copa America, there should be a warm welcoming spirit, and there will be for the most part. However, there could be opportunities for triggers. Argentineans are not xenophobes like many nations, they are quite tolerant. However, they are very nationalistic and proud, like many peoples. In Mendoza, the normally unprpeared locals are going to be shocked in about 2 weeks with the arrivals of a minumum of 25,000 (conservative probaly closerer to 35,0000). No love lost between the Argentineans and the Chileans, going to rub many the wrong way (tho Argentineans love the Brazilians, no problem there). But the nerves will not react towards the Chileans, there will be too many of them. They may be focused on the fewer number of gringos.

My advice to all those here and coming , most of you savvy anyway, to try to be a little less conspicious, especially those who might have wanted to sport UK or US emblems anywhere. And maybe turn the foreign languages, epseically the inglés, a few notches down for the next few months. Could be nothing, and I could be paranoid. As Billy Joel said, "I may be wrong, but I may be right". People who are experienced travelling in other cultures know it is always better not to be too flashy about showing where you are from anyway. And Argentina is still a relatively safe country, especially compared to most others in Latin America.

Don't mean to appear alarmist, and I probably am, but feel I have to write this anyway.

Saludos!
 
I haven't really been here that long (only since the beginning of the year) but I am wondering if this is more about misdirection and smoke and mirrors in an election year or is it something that us foreigners in general have to actually start worrying about (?) Personally I haven't had any real problems yet at all (touch wood).
 
An interesting topic .... personally, It's not the election cycle xeno-bashing nationalism I worry about ... All democratic countries have that to a certain extent .... it's the post election fallout on the peso valuation and whether or not there will be any sort of austerity or devaluation that shocks the Argentinian system.

Desperate times can drive good people to desperate acts.
 
Well, I guess we have to wait and see. For me personally I have been here only a short time - but in that time I have made some very good local friends and have a good life here. I cannot say I have experienced any real racism towards myself here - and overall have found the people to be friendly and warm. Maybe its just me - but I can think of many worse places to be:) I know I need to work harder at learning the language and really getting to know the culture and people better - but even without a lot of effort that is sort of naturally happening anyway. It may sound strange but I believe that in a short time here I have made more real friends than I did in the last few years back home - and they are genuine friends who are really there for me.
 
The government is defiantly anti- UK or US. Not everyone. I haven't seen reason to believe that all the politicians are. But CFK certainly seems to be and holds considerable sway over her followers.

Personally, I have seen a lot of animosity by the part of average porteños to gringos here. Not everyone, don't get me wrong. But the number of people that will give me awful stares on the subway or bus today (even though I'm talking in Spanish) is somewhat off putting.

But there seems to be two types of people here. Those who don't know any gringos personally (and therefore assume that we are all money loving Argentine hating jack2
@$$s) and those who actually know gringos in person or who have been to the States or to the UK.

People never like what they don't know or understand. Most of the animosity that I have encountered is due to people not understanding us. For me, its fine. If they don't know me in person, they are welcome not to like me.

I wouldn't be worried about a few people lashing out against gringos on talk shows or about people taking action against us. If they did take action, it would most likely be in all the normal ways, charging us 3 pesos for a tomato that costs 1 peso for porteños or driving us around in circles when we take a cab.

If you're worried, don't speak a lot of English (which we shouldn't be doing in a Spanish speaking country anyway if we don't want to stand out) when out in public.
 
mendozanow said:
Pasted from message tinight I got from a friend:

-----------------------------------------------

SSSShhhhh....

Okay, I am only writing this, most reluctantly, because the liitle angel on my right shoulder has been nagging me (the little devil on my left shoulder is saying:"...aww f&*^^k it, lettem findout fer themselves....). That, and the copious amounts of vino malbec this evening. Could be nothing, but thought I would quietly issue a little possible caution.Queitly, because I greatly love the Argentineans I live amongst, they are great people and it is a great land, that is why I live here.

The usual rhetoric from la presidenta Cristina. yunno, the Malvinas (i won;t use theparallell "F" word here, don' twanna raise too many hackles about that stupid little w#r). Usual, especially with the election coming up, easy political hay. However, with added fire of the comments from the PM from yunnowhere, there has been a subtle, yet perceptible shift in the ambience. Could be the added stress of the volcano and other things as well.

Anyway, an Argentine English teacher colleague, an anglophile, comes into school yesterday wearing her Union Jack jacket, never had a problem before other than a few harmless jokes, said that several people shook their fists at her, and one women stoped her in the street and told her not to wear that, anger masked as concern. She phoned her boyfriend in the teacher's room asking him to bring another jacket by the school.

Stupid talks shows let fn the tube on the side of the room last night while visiting some friends.. Stupid but denigrating jokes about the British and the US in general. Harmless in themselves, but they never did it themselves. This morning , some political talk shows on the radio and television, a little more strident, insulting Brits and Yanks in a subtle way.

At noon, listening to my favourite stupid local comedian on local Mendoza TV, again insulting anglos, never did this before.

Today, friends subtley nudged , suggesting I be careful with my English on the streets. Gentle concern, not overdone, but that has never happened before.

With Copa America, there should be a warm welcoming spirit, and there will be for the most part. However, there could be opportunities for triggers. Argentineans are not xenophobes like many nations, they are quite tolerant. However, they are very nationalistic and proud, like many peoples. In Mendoza, the normally unprpeared locals are going to be shocked in about 2 weeks with the arrivals of a minumum of 25,000 (conservative probaly closerer to 35,0000). No love lost between the Argentineans and the Chileans, going to rub many the wrong way (tho Argentineans love the Brazilians, no problem there). But the nerves will not react towards the Chileans, there will be too many of them. They may be focused on the fewer number of gringos.

My advice to all those here and coming , most of you savvy anyway, to try to be a little less conspicious, especially those who might have wanted to sport UK or US emblems anywhere. And maybe turn the foreign languages, epseically the inglés, a few notches down for the next few months. Could be nothing, and I could be paranoid. As Billy Joel said, "I may be wrong, but I may be right". People who are experienced travelling in other cultures know it is always better not to be too flashy about showing where you are from anyway. And Argentina is still a relatively safe country, especially compared to most others in Latin America.

Don't mean to appear alarmist, and I probably am, but feel I have to write this anyway.

Saludos!

I don't get this, are you saying that 'an Argentine' colleague did come to the school wearing an Union Jack Jacket?...an argentine girl wearing an union jack jacket ???? I can't believe that in a million years. What do she was thinking?...she may be thinking to commit suicide?

Now if that wasn't the case and who really was wearing the union jack jacket was an english girl then...

What do you 'friend' expects?....that is nothing less than a (subtle) provocation, after the declarations of that f#ckwit David Cameron, going out with something like this...

UJ_Zip_Jacke.jpg


What do her expects a kiss on the cheek?, Sheer stupidity I have to say, one way of looking for trouble.

Argentineans are not xenophobes like many nations, they are quite tolerant

Yes, indeed, the Argentines are very tolerant to some degree, when something like this happens after the two leaders make statements of this nature, one will not go out wearing an Union Jack jacket ... c'mon
 
In 1947 Great Britain wanted to submit the Malvinas/Falklands case to the International Court of Justice, but this was refused by Argentina.

In 1955 Great Britain unilaterally handed the case to the International Court but Argentina claimed it wouldn't respect the decision of the court and it was dropped.

In the late 1960s, secret negotiation between Argentina and Great Britain, of handing over the islands to Argentina, but this was leaked to the islanders, who protested their right to self-determination and it came to naught.

After the Argentino military dictatorship's tragic war in 1982 where 649 Argentinos and 258 from the GB were killed in vain, the GB government became stubborn and won't discuss the status of the islands. IMO Borges was absolutely right, it was "like two bald men fighting over a comb" and as usual those responsible stayed far away to save their own skins, while the young were slaughtered.

It is my assessment that without this war and if complete silence had been maintained about the subject, the islands would have been silently transferred to Argentina sometime in the 1990's after secret negotiations.

Every time there is a crisis or elections coming up, the Argentino government starts talking islands.
 
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