Prescription Meds Cost

[Matiasba]

I think you're missing my point. I never said that the US can't tax nor that the US doesn't spend enough on health care.

My point is simply that if you provided unlimited universal health care with no restrictions or limitations then the cost of doing so will increase to infinity.

I dont think youre right. Look at big europeans states, you have 100% of population covered, with less money, you have quality life... if we were in the 1960s Argentina you would have found something similar, universalism is not a problem of budget.

 

[PhilipDT]

I dont think youre right. Look at big europeans states, you have 100% of population covered, with less money, you have quality life... if we were in the 1960s Argentina you would have found something similar, universalism is not a problem of budget.

You have 100% of the population covered but you don't have 100% of the population covered for anything. Take this to the extreme, in the example I posted a few pages back, I asked Montuk if she thought the state should cover a $40 million dollar treatment. Let's say that there was such a thing (I'm almost positive there isn't), and it treated a problem that just 1/2 of a percent of the population suffered. That would come to a cost of 3.2 trillion dollars or in other words the entire GDP of the country, just to provide a marginal benefit to 1/2 a percent of the population. There isn't enough money! There can't be, because if there is in one day then tomorrow something else will be available that costs more for a low marginal improvement in overall health

In the US I used to go to the dentist once or twice a year because even with health insurance the copay's are very expensive.

In Argentina I go about 4-6 times a year and if I wanted to I could go every week.

Is my oral health better off if I go to the dentist every week for cleanings and preventative treatments? Most likely. Is it 26 times better off? No way in hell.

 

[EdRooney]

With all respect Phil, this is a problem I see often when it comes to Americans talking about healthcare: They think about the problem and the possible policy repercussions as if they were abstract ideas; but they're not abstract! All you have to do is look and see how other countries do things better and imitate them.

That's how Great American Thinkers come up with things like death panels, $40 million treatments, what-if this, what-if that...

I'm not saying you're going to build a perfect system; but look around, countries find practical ways to cover everybody, and spend a boatload less to do so.

No theorising necessary.

 

[PhilipDT]

With all respect Phil, this is a problem I see often when it comes to Americans talking about healthcare: They think about the problem and the possible policy repercussions as if they were abstract ideas; but they're not abstract! All you have to do is look and see how other countries do things better and imitate them.

That's how Great American Thinkers come up with things like death panels, $40 million treatments, what-if this, what-if that...

I'm not saying you're going to build a perfect system; but look around, countries find practical ways to cover everybody, and spend a boatload less to do so.

No theorising necessary.

I've tried to make it clear in all of my posts that I'm not defending the health care system in America. I think it's a complete and total disaster and should be the shame of the country. Not one of my posts has been about the execution of providing healthcare.

I've been trying to make a very basic economic point. Which is: http://youtu.be/7S94ohyErSw?t=1m30s (your point comes a few seconds later)

 

[EdRooney]

I understand you're not defending the US healthcare system, but you seem to be saying: well the problem with changing it the way you guys are saying is that you have to put some kind of limits on it... like who's gonna pay for grandma's $40 gazillion frontal lobe transplant?


My point is, why are you even asking these hypothetical questions? Why not just look and see how other countries do things much better and see how they deal with these issues?

This question about "there not being enough money" only makes no sense if you don't understand how to control costs. That's where the question leads us, not "well what if it cost $50 gazillion...?"

 

[PhilipDT]

I understand you're not defending the US healthcare system, but you seem to be saying: well the problem with changing it the way you guys are saying is that you have to put some kind of limits on it... like who's gonna pay for grandma's $40 gazillion frontal lobe transplant?


My point is, why are you even asking these hypothetical questions? Why not just look and see how other countries do things much better and see how they deal with these issues?

This question about "there not being enough money" only makes no sense if you don't understand how to control costs. That's where the question leads us, not "well what if it cost $50 gazillion...?"

See my point about detail work in Argentina. I'm personally better off for it the system at a whole would be better off limiting my consumption.

What is best for me is not best for society.

 

[EdRooney]

Sorry no I don't see your point. Care to re-phrase?

 

[Montauk_Project]

I never said that the state should pay for a 40 million dollar treatment, I said that charging a ton of money, most of which is profit, is immoral. The state can choose to ration health care or look for more economical treatments. In the case of going to the dentist, the state can limit dentist visits to once per year unless there is a medical need--no need to charge!

 

[garryl]

You can't beat Dr. Savings for price. It's usually half the prices of the other pharmacies: http://www.farmacias...om.ar/index.php

I just back from there and got two boxes of atoravastatin 10mg 60 tables for 83 pesos. This is for cholesterol ... all the butter, cheese and ricota portions... A regular pharmacy might charge four times this much!

that's cheap. In US each pill(similar cholesterol med) is 1-2 dollars if you do not have insurance, so that bottle will cost 120 dollars in US, about 1000 pesos vs 83 pesos. Do people still complain living in Argentina ?

 

[PhilipDT]

I never said that the state should pay for a 40 million dollar treatment, I said that charging a ton of money, most of which is profit, is immoral. The state can choose to ration health care or look for more economical treatments. In the case of going to the dentist, the state can limit dentist visits to once per year unless there is a medical need--no need to charge!

I'm pretty sure the most expensive medicines don't imply all that more profit than the normal ones. They just have that cost spread out over fewer people.

I just don't see how it's a moral issue. Laboratories develop drugs in order to turn a profit, it's a very expensive and very lucrative business. I don't see how it's immoral to charge what the market will bear for a new medicines. If you don't wan't to pay the price you don't have to buy it, and you'd be exactly the same off as if the drug hadn't been invented.

I think the main problem with health care cost is how we pay for it or at least how we pay for it in the US. The costs are just too far removed from the consumers. I think it's absurd that doctors prescribe, people buy and insurers pay for brand name medicine when there is an IDENTICAL generic available for 1/5th of the price.