Questions About Inheritance And Joint Property Ownership

[steveinbsas]

I have several questions regarding inheritance and joint property ownership. I am not married and have no children. I do own property in Argentina.

My closest living relatives are my brother and his two children. They are not interested in inheriting property in Argentina and don't want to sign any documents renouncing their right of inheritance if it means sending copies of their passports and birth certificates to Argentina.

I'm not sure that I can make a "valid" will leaving my property to anyone else.

I know if was married that my wife would automatically inherit my property but I am not ready to jump off that cliff at this time. I am considering a new escritura that adds my choice of heir to the title and wonder if the division of interest can be 80-20, 60-40, or even 51-49% with me as the owner of the larger percentage.

I also would like to know if the party with the majority share can sell the property even if the other party doesn't want to sell and if the other party would or could inherit my interest or would still have to deal with my family in the future, even though they want nothing to do with it now.

 

[Montauk_Project]

I don´t think you can do what you want to do, and upon your death your relatives would still get the property.
It seems like you need a lawyer. They tend to know more about these things than random people on a forum. You are not the first person with this issue, so there might be some work around (like a future bill of sale) but it could be that your cousins will just get stuck with it, if they show up and claim it.

 

[Farenheit]

Steve, couldn't your brother just send an apostilled and officially translated copy of his passport and birth certificate?

 

[steveinbsas]

Steve, couldn't your brother just send an apostilled and officially translated copy of his passport and birth certificate?

He doesn't do anything that his lawyer tells him not to do and she already advised him against it.

 

[nikad]

You need to talk to a lawyer, the way around this is donacion con derecho de usufructo vitalicio, where you donate the property in life, to whomever you want, for example to me, but you reserve the right to live there until your death, and it cannot be sold, while yo are there.

 

[French jurist]

Not sure if that will answer precisely to your question but I'll give it a try.

In France (same legal roots as in Argentina for many things, thanks to the Napoleon Civil Code), there's what we call "vente en viager". It seems it would translate as "Venta/adquisicion en usufructo vitalicio". It seems this is possible in Argentina.

I tried to find the right translation in English but it's not clear if that has really the same meaning (that would be something related to "tenant for life" or "life tenant" => British Law seems to make a distinction between both while Canadian Law doesn't. I'm not sure that has exactly the same meaning as the French & Spanish terms above though).

Back to the first paragraph (you might know already perfectly what it is though): it consists in a form of sale through which you'll sell the "nuda propriedad" of the house while keeping the "usufructo" of it (in this case, until your death). The sale can be a one time payment (of course for much less than what the property is worth if sold immediately) or can be followed with monthly installments.
A bit more details in Spanish here: http://es.wikipedia..../Nuda_propiedad

I'm not sure if this mechanism exists in Common Law countries (?).

It's of course a kind of bet for both parties (can be expensive or very cheap for one or the other, a great French movie was made out of that, "le viager" 1972 with Michel Serrault).

***EDIT: Nikad was quicker than me

 

[steveinbsas]

Thanks Nikad. I think you wrote about the donacion con derecho de usufructo vitalicio a couple years ago.

Thanks to Frenchie, too!

It doesn't work for me because I may not want to live in this house until I die and if it is already 100% in someone else's name I won't be able to sell it, take the proceeds, and go somewhere else to live.

I know an unmarried Argentine couple (much younger than me) who bought an apartment in CF with a 75-25% division in ownership (based upon the percentage of their individual investment).

What I would like to know if I sold (or donated) an interest in my property of up to 49% would I still have the say-so regarding a sale and who does or doesn't live there while I am.

Would the individual whose name would be on the escritura with me retain their interest after my death? If they are living in the house they would never have to worry about my brother or his kids wanting anything (including sale proceeds).

If they are not living in the house they would only have to worry about squatters.

 

[French jurist]

You can also search the forum http://www.portaldeabogados.com.ar with "usufructo vitalicio" for keywords to see more aspects related to that.

 

[French jurist]

It would be interesting to know under which regim your young friends bought together a condo.

There's the "indivision" mechanism too which is quite flexible (at least in France -sorry for the comparative study but that's always how I try to understand how things work here-). Here, the "indivision" seems to be mentioned mainly in "forced indivisions" (when inheriting) but I guess it's possible to buy under this regim as well (to be checked with a pro of course). It's flexible because you can usually add many terms to tweak the details (rule might be that no one is obliged to stay in the indivision though, hence I don't know if you can amend that point enough to your own wishes).

Another solution (not sure that exists here), would be a "sociedad civil inmobiliaria" (usually for bigger projects, but can be used for personal motives), with eventually terms anticipating the death of one of the parties.

 

[jeff1234]

I have several questions regarding inheritance and joint property ownership. I am not married and have no children. I do own property in Argentina.

My closest living relatives are my brother and his two children. They are not interested in inheriting property in Argentina and don't want to sign any documents renouncing their right of inheritance if it means sending copies of their passports and birth certificates to Argentina.

I'm not sure that I can make a "valid" will leaving my property to anyone else.

I know if was married that my wife would automatically inherit my property but I am not ready to jump off that cliff at this time. I am considering a new escritura that adds my choice of heir to the title and wonder if the division of interest can be 80-20, 60-40, or even 51-49% with me as the owner of the larger percentage.

I also would like to know if the party with the majority share can sell the property even if the other party doesn't want to sell and if the other party would or could inherit my interest or would still have to deal with my family in the future, even though they want nothing to do with it now.

Would you consider adopting a son?? I know of a man in La Plata that wouldn't mind an inheritance. He's slightly older but the benefit is that you wouldn't have to worry about paying for college or having him borrow your car. And you'd be an instant grandfather. Doesn't that sound great, dad??