Recoleta . Zona Liberada - Entraderas

[homeinbuenosaires]

How many people think that the really heavy police presence in Recoleta these days is a form of Government response to the recent wave of cacerolazos (and related complaints about the increasing crime rate in the neighborhood these days)? I haven't heard that angle mentioned at all and am wondering why not.

As someone who usually spends from a couple to several hours per day walking around Recoleta, it's really noticeable. It does seem pretty proactive.

 

[nledec]

I have seen a lot more police in Recoleta, but I mostly see them texting on their cell phones or gossiping together. There isn't any surveillance going on to speak of. Pura Pinta I say. I doubt we are any safer...

 

[HGQ2112]

Andrew,

Cool. I get your perspective. FYI, same two neighborhoods for me. Grew up as a kind in Lakeview East. Lived as an adult mostly Gold Coast. If the argument is you hear about more BA crime...I won't go there. Reason being...I got involved in the ugliest tit-for-tat debate on that in an Ecuador forum, same topic. I will just say that the perception of crime has a valid impact rooted in a psychological basis. Me, I prefer solid, empirical data over perceptions. Reason being, what if the perceptions from your group of friends is different from the perceptions of my group of friends. Who is right? Truth is neither. They are perceptions...observations. You have to cull the observations from the masses, before it starts to get statistically verifiable and significant. How do you do that with? Crime reports? Back to square one...and the argument from both sides repeats itself. I am not denying what your friends are experiencing is real. No doubt crime in BA is rising, as it is in, say, Chicago. I just feel for people that think leaving BA to go to Miami, New York, LA, etc., are rushing to "safety". While some have mocked this comparison, it is valid in a thread where folks spoke of leaving BA. A valid point is...leaving for where? The answer to that question...begs the comparison. I hope you and your friends continue to be safe in the future. Be ever vigilant...in BA, Chicago...or wherever you may roam.

 

[HGQ2112]

Citygirl,

Lol...laugh away. However, I bet if we total the entire number of days you have spent in BA and mine...they wouldn't look that different. Yours would likely be more compressed in time, mine more dispersed. In some ways, it gives me the advantage of seeing the city evolve over time. So...yes...I can make the point in your favor that BA is more dangerous today than 10 years ago. However, I can also make the point that St. Louis (USA) is more dangerous today than 10 years. It is all relative. That perspective and frame of reference is an asset...even if, apparently a funny one.

 

[HGQ2112]

nicoenarg,

It is not a bad point. But you did just about list all of the places. Well, actually, you missed Saudi Arabia, also, off the top of my head. Let me spot you another 10 countries in addition, say small Island states. Even then, they would represent a small fraction of the world's nations. My point, by a significant majority, still stands. The majority of the world feels under siege, with only a few countries "feeling safe"...except in the case of the USA, it is misguided smugness. There is no safety to be found. Did you factor that into your analysis? Look at your list:

UAE, Oman, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, [Saudi Arabia] - Islamic law states, with some pretty serious, immediately doled out penalties for things like rape, murder...or even theft. Barbaric to some...quite the legitimate crime deterrent to others. But...yes...truly safe locales, unlike the USA.

Singapore - Squeaky clean safe...I would say sterile.

Denmark - Check again...not so much anymore. Perception that i. Many Danes do not feel safe, as crime has risen...but, a fraction of what it is in Argentina and, certainly, the USA.

Switzerland (for the most part) - And for the most, it remains a bastion of a crime free zone...plus really cool watches.

New Zealand (for the most part) - Ditto Switzerland, minus the watches...but plus the world's best rugby team (let's hear it from the Argentina crowd)...go All-Blacks!

Australia (for the most part) - Dude...not most parts. Heavily depends. Again, we are talking perception. Many Aussies are way not feeling safe these days.

Still...point is...I don't get your point? You just pointed places in the world that at least could make an argument for "feeling safe". What's the USA's argument - ummmmm..."Feel Safe in the Murder Capital of the World"?

 

[citygirl]

Citygirl,

Lol...laugh away. However, I bet if we total the entire number of days you have spent in BA and mine...they wouldn't look that different. Yours would likely be more compressed in time, mine more dispersed. In some ways, it gives me the advantage of seeing the city evolve over time. So...yes...I can make the point in your favor that BA is more dangerous today than 10 years ago. However, I can also make the point that St. Louis (USA) is more dangerous today than 10 years. It is all relative. That perspective and frame of reference is an asset...even if, apparently a funny one.

It doesn't matter how many times you have VISITED here. You don't live here. That's nice that you come to visit every year. I go to visit many cities around the world every year, many multiple times a year for work. I'm pretty sure that my 2 or 3 week trips to those cities where I go for business, stay in hotels and travel from office to hotel to restaurant don't really make me any type of expert on them or what daily life is like nor would I presume to tell someone who actually you know lived there, what their city is like. Hell, I lived in NYC for 10 years. I go many, many times a year still. My family are friends are still there. Do you think I'm qualified to tell someone currently living there what it's like there today? I don't. And neither should you.

But whatever, tell us we're paranoid and we don't know of what we are speaking. You have the right. Just as I have the right to tell you I think your words are completely meaningless and you have no real idea what you're pontificating about.

 

[nicoenarg]

nicoenarg,

It is not a bad point. But you did just about list all of the places. Well, actually, you missed Saudi Arabia, also, off the top of my head. Let me spot you another 10 countries in addition, say small Island states. Even then, they would represent a small fraction of the world's nations. My point, by a significant majority, still stands. The majority of the world feels under siege, with only a few countries "feeling safe"...except in the case of the USA, it is misguided smugness. There is no safety to be found. Did you factor that into your analysis? Look at your list:

UAE, Oman, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, [Saudi Arabia] - Islamic law states, with some pretty serious, immediately doled out penalties for things like rape, murder...or even theft. Barbaric to some...quite the legitimate crime deterrent to others. But...yes...truly safe locales, unlike the USA.

Singapore - Squeaky clean safe...I would say sterile.

Denmark - Check again...not so much anymore. Perception that i. Many Danes do not feel safe, as crime has risen...but, a fraction of what it is in Argentina and, certainly, the USA.

Switzerland (for the most part) - And for the most, it remains a bastion of a crime free zone...plus really cool watches.

New Zealand (for the most part) - Ditto Switzerland, minus the watches...but plus the world's best rugby team (let's hear it from the Argentina crowd)...go All-Blacks!

Australia (for the most part) - Dude...not most parts. Heavily depends. Again, we are talking perception. Many Aussies are way not feeling safe these days.

Still...point is...I don't get your point? You just pointed places in the world that at least could make an argument for "feeling safe". What's the USA's argument - ummmmm..."Feel Safe in the Murder Capital of the World"?

Haha. You're hilarious and a little pathetic. You started off with, and I quote:

The USA is the only nation that lives under the misguided belief that "life is safe", while the rest of the world lives like they are "under siege".

Now it seems like the US is not the only nation that lives under the "misguided" notion that "life is safe".

As for Denmark. Who have you been talking to? Saudi Arabia, safe? Really? It was, up until 1995. Live in the past much!

Your point about 5 of the GCC states was hilarious and quite frankly, disturbing. You said:

with some pretty serious, immediately doled out penalties for things like rape, murder...or even theft.

I know, so sad that rapists and murderers get punished. Who'd want to live in a country where rapists and murderers get punished? Not me!!

I agree that punishment for theft in Saudi Arabia is brutal. Its downright barbaric. In fact, its even bad in Dubai (the UAE), although not at the same level as Saudi Arabia. But that has no bearing on a regular resident and how safe they FEEL. I am specifically talking about your comment about the "misguided belief". Nothing else.

 

[nicoenarg]

Lastly, I have said this plenty of times in other threads before but let me say it again, a little more clearly:

THE FACT THAT THERE IS CRIME IN OTHER COUNTRIES HAS NO BEARING ON THE LEVEL OF CRIME WE, THE RESIDENTS OF BUENOS AIRES, HAVE TO DEAL WITH ON A DAILY BASIS.

It doesn't matter to a person recently robbed when you say, "Oh but take comfort in the fact that there is statistically more crime in Nigeria!"

 

[sleslie23]

Lastly, I have said this plenty of times in other threads before but let me say it again, a little more clearly:

THE FACT THAT THERE IS CRIME IN OTHER COUNTRIES HAS NO BEARING ON THE LEVEL OF CRIME WE, THE RESIDENTS OF BUENOS AIRES, HAVE TO DEAL WITH ON A DAILY BASIS.

It doesn't matter to a person recently robbed when you say, "Oh but take comfort in the fact that there is statistically more crime in Nigeria!"

I don't necessarily agree. Sure, the crime rates in San Francisco or wherever have no direct effect on my daily life here in Buenos Aires. If that is your point, then you're just making an obvious statement.

But a lot of people on this forum could use a little perspective. The attitude of many (not necessarily you) is that Buenos Aires is a crime ridden shit hole and the worst city in the world.

But hey, don't let me stand in the way of the complaint fest that is BAExpats. Continue moaning about the crime, the dog shit, and the lack of quality peanut butter.

 

[nicoenarg]

I don't necessarily agree. Sure, the crime rates in San Francisco or wherever have no direct effect on my daily life here in Buenos Aires. If that is your point, then you're just making an obvious statement.

But a lot of people on this forum could use a little perspective. The attitude of many (not necessarily you) is that Buenos Aires is a crime ridden shit hole and the worst city in the world.

But hey, don't let me stand in the way of the complaint fest that is BAExpats. Continue moaning about the crime, the dog shit, and the lack of quality peanut butter.

Yup I agree that there are some who might think that Buenos Aires is the worst city on the planet. Which, of course, is not true. There are cities that are far more dangerous than Buenos Aires. Whenever I went to Lagos, for example, my colleagues and I needed to have security around us armed with AK-47s from the airport to the hotel. No such measures are needed in Buenos Aires.

However, for the most part when people complain about the crime here in Buenos Aires, they are only saying how bad it is in Buenos Aires. It is not a comparison between Buenos Aires and city X. There are others, on the other hand, who feel the need to justify Buenos Aires by comparing it to another city somewhere else in the world.

Again, when people complain about Buenos Aires, they do not and should not have to compare Buenos Aires with another city. For the residents of Buenos Aires, and I'm sure you are one of them, it should be enough to say that Buenos Aires sucks or rocks on its own merits.

For tourists and people here temporarily, well that's another story.

EDIT: To add to the above, I will give an example. Its only an example, made up, not fact so don't take it and start using it as evidence of crime in Buenos Aires:

I'm walking down the street and a motochorro comes and robs the crap out of me. I am frustrated and saddened because the police does not want to write down a report. What happens then. For me, Buenos Aires becomes difficult to deal with not only because there are robbers but because the police does not do their job either. I get sick of Buenos Aires and I want my stay here to be overwith as soon as possible.

Now, nothing like that has ever happened to me personally but I know plenty of Argentines here (my wife's aunt and cousins plus a whole lotta people at church) who have experienced this kind of stuff. What does that tell me or you? Simply that Buenos Aires has a lot of crime. That is bad but the worst part is that the police do not take any action whatsoever a lot of the times. And that's what makes the whole situation worse than it really should be.

You can't protect yourself and the people who are paid to protect you are not interested in it. That makes this situation unbearable at times. No one likes having a freakin' target on their backs while they're basically a sitting duck. That is what adds to the frustration.

Now, I didn't compare Argentina to any other city. Other societies, sure. Its from other societies that I understand that the police is there to protect and serve, not to shrug their shoulders because they don't want to file paperwork. However, I am not comparing Buenos Aires with another city. Buenos Aires, in this respect, is pretty screwed up on its own.