Recoleta . Zona Liberada - Entraderas

[nicoenarg]

Perhaps this is one y'all are looking for?

http://www.clarin.com/policiales/Golpes-expres_0_782321867.html

Except it says 9 hotels in the last 4 months. I didn't read the whole thing though.

 

[earlyretirement]

Perhaps this is one y'all are looking for?

http://www.clarin.com/policiales/Golpes-expres_0_782321867.html

Except it says 9 hotels in the last 4 months. I didn't read the whole thing though.

Thanks for the link Nico. Wow, it says the jewelry store next to the Alvear Palace Hotel got robbed. Oh well..at least in one of the cases it says some of the thieves got caught. Probably not the smartest thing robbing a hotel 1 block from a police station.

 

[HGQ2112]

Nope - are you trying to establish some level of credibility or playing a game of "you know BA better" and basing that on an assumption and perception of how I live my life and what I've done in Buenos Aires or Argentina in general? Odd that....

And really - you are using the phrase "empirical data" in conjunction with discussing anything occurring in Argentina? If there was every a dead give away you don't live here, that would be it.

You think Buenos Aires is safe. Congrats to you. Many of us that live here have concerns about safely, the rise in crime and the lack of any police response. Those concerns are based on our direct experiences. Continue to enjoy your visits to Buenos Aires. Hopefully you will stay safe.

Citygirl,

I am using "empirical data" as in "fact", rather than "perception" garnered from personal stimuli - the bastion of the closed minded, who do not want to learn beyond what they already think they see and know. Proving that distinction, I at least offer the objective observation of noting that said perception does hold validity in the form of fostering one's psychological responses. However, it should not be a replacement for reason and fact. I then reference a recent article from 2011, from an Argentina press organ, which alludes to this odd dichotomy between reality and perception when it comes to Argentina crime. Of course, this would require the ability to A) read; B) be willing to consider the opinions of others intellectually without an effort to mindlessly dismiss. As for your assertion that I am trying to "one up" from a knowledge base perspective, you miss the point. Actually, you become the cliche for the point. Those who are guided only by perception need to establish some superior vantage point, lacking the facts to otherwise support their thesis. It comes out in statements like, "Well, I should know, because I was there." So...what? Where were the other millions of BA residents at the exact same time? Were they witnessing the exact same [fill in the blank] atrocity you were? Or were they peacefully strolling the avenues, sipping coffee at a cafe, dining pleasantly at a parrillada, enjoying time at home, in a non-burglarizd environment? We often forget about the relationship of what the vast majority is experiencing, as we fill our minds with self-absorbed images of the importance of our own visual stimuli. That is a relative comparison within BA, not the "big, bad USA" or other trivial taunts. End of the day...your personal observations, in formulating a broad consensus, don't mean squat. As Humphrey Bogart said to Ingrid Bergman in Casablanca, "...it doesn't take much to see that the problems of three little people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world." In your case...one person...and we can scale the world down to just BA, so that the sensibilities of others who disdain a light of day look at comparative crime don't get offended.

 

[nicoenarg]

Thanks for the link Nico. Wow, it says the jewelry store next to the Alvear Palace Hotel got robbed. Oh well..at least in one of the cases it says some of the thieves got caught. Probably not the smartest thing robbing a hotel 1 block from a police station.

The article said that, if I understood correctly, most of the robbers were amateurs(?). That might explain them getting caught. No matter what the case though, it is a breath of fresh air to finally see someone arrested for a crime (that apprently doesn't exist because in the US ______ ).

 

[citygirl]

Stop talking about crime you crybabies, it's worse in (Insert random city that has nothing to do with current discussion)

Back to the original discussion - interesting about the hotels. That was a common MO for robberies in Caracas a few years ago.

Oh and back to the original, original discussion - we've put a number of security features in place. We have a wall around our property, electronic gates, we have an alarm, we have cameras, we have trained guard dogs (fila brasileros) and we have personal protection as well. I used to think it was overkill but I'm glad we have it after the number of break-ins around here. While nothing is fail-safe, they would have to get through quite a few things in order to get into the house.

Personally, I take base level precautions. I don't carry a lot of cash on me, I don't take all my credit cards with me, I don't take my expensive phone out if I'm on the street, I don't park my car on the street, I put my purse under the seat when driving (smash and grabs are a favorite crime) and I don't drive alone at night. And if we're coming home at night, I am very, very careful and we don't stop once we get off the highway for any reason. I think that's about it.

 

[Iznogud]

I am using "empirical data" as in "fact", rather than "perception" garnered from personal stimuli - the bastion of the closed minded, who do not want to learn beyond what they already think they see and know.

Lets have a closer look at your "empirical data", shall we?
1. People do not normally report crime here. It's perceived as a complete waste of time and a potential additional risk. Ask them.

2. Police Precincts are mandated to produce predetermined quotas of this and that. Exceded those quotas the data gets lost, misfiled or transformed in useless garble.
Little or no proactive measures are part of the police activities, follow up is hardly ever heard of, unless we're talking high profile delinquency. Talk privately to a cop.

3. Higher ups and politicos don't have solutions, so they know better than to get close to the problems.
Those with the art of making statitics speak for them will launch into incredible disertations full of smelly BS and finger pointing but it would really be a first if someone offered a decent and honest diagnose of the fundamental problems and then acted on those in order to provide real world solutions.
Most of the politicos love to tell us that guns kill people instead of people kill people. That'll show you how clear a picture they have and how well versed in social interaction and engineering they are. Mensa material, most of them.

4. So unless really, really stupid criminals start keeping public scores of their activities without cheating I wonder where will you get your "empirical data"?

 

[Rich One]

Please Refer to today's Clarin page 52 under Policiales....!! GOLPES EXPRESS....ªª double page article...!!Hotel Suipacha, Hotel Temine, Hotel Octubre, Hotel Dante, and other, previously the Alvear Jewelry store also robbed.

http://www.clarin.com/policiales/Golpes-expres_0_782321867.html

PD ; Sometimes It makes me wonder when people ask for the page and exact names,addresses, plus the Police Station envolved (jejeje), amount robbed , etc. Are these genuine interests...??

 

[Iznogud]

^^^ Some of it, it is. You want to know if a certain area is being targeted or if these are seemingly unrelated events just put together by the media.
It might be either the same neigborhood and a small gang working it, a new developping trend or just isolated facts in one story. They usually do not stay too long in one neighborhood before moving to a distant one. Better odds.

I've heard one shop owner tell a customer that 3 or 4 stores had been hit in just a few days in a two block radius.
Remember early this year the bell ringing at odd hours when no one was expected. The home-building invasions started not long after that.

It's useful also to know if the same precinct is involved or not.

 

[HGQ2112]

Lets have a closer look at your "empirical data", shall we?
1. People do not normally report crime here. It's perceived as a complete waste of time and a potential additional risk. Ask them.

2. Police Precincts are mandated to produce predetermined quotas of this and that. Exceded those quotas the data gets lost, misfiled or transformed in useless garble.
Little or no proactive measures are part of the police activities, follow up is hardly ever heard of, unless we're talking high profile delinquency. Talk privately to a cop.

3. Higher ups and politicos don't have solutions, so they know better than to get close to the problems.
Those with the art of making statitics speak for them will launch into incredible disertations full of smelly BS and finger pointing but it would really be a first if someone offered a decent and honest diagnose of the fundamental problems and then acted on those in order to provide real world solutions.
Most of the politicos love to tell us that guns kill people instead of people kill people. That'll show you how clear a picture they have and how well versed in social interaction and engineering they are. Mensa material, most of them.

4. So unless really, really stupid criminals start keeping public scores of their activities without cheating I wonder where will you get your "empirical data"?

Iznogud,

I am not going to rehash the same thing over and over again:

1) You have no valid, empirical basis from which to prove a negative - that people do not report crime. I don't care if you personally know 20 people that have not. The next 200 people I meet might know that people do report crime. It is a fruitless and baseless discussion to "prove a negative". You certainly have no empirical data to suggest that crimes are more underreported in BA than in any other major city in the world - say Sao Paulo or Detroit. It is just not a discussion worth having. Sorry.
2)This allegation is even more absurd. Now you pretend to know that local BA police "lose" reports and data. If you were a presiding police official, in a supervisory rank, I would find this allegation of "minor interest". For example, just because one guy runs a squad room one way, doesn't mean the next one does the same. This is an even more pathetic and useless discussion.
3) I agree with the premise...but it adds nothing to the dialog, in general or as I have presented it. Valid points...but someone's "political posture" on crime has zero to do with actual crime stats. My posture can be "I see no crime, I see no crime, I see no crime" and it still will not absolve BA, New York, or London of crime.
4) Empirical data is retrieved by a variety of organizations, on a global basis, and reported. Some places to get data are Interpol, FBI, varied university reports and, more mundane sites, which merely cull data from the aforementioned, such as NationMasters. Did you really think I was just going to say, "Duh, ummmm...I dunno." Seriously, folks...get educated. I know crime is bad in BA, no matter how many of you try to spin my position as different. I know it has been getting increasingly bad over the last 10 years and, especially, the last 5 years. However, moving from BA to Detroit to "escape crime"...bad idea. All I have ever said in this thread...and will keep saying it until the ridiculous nonsense stops, is that BA, per capita, is not even remotely close to being the most crime ridden city in the world. A "bazillion" USA cities beat it...most major Colombian cities beat it...many Mexican cities beat it...Tegucigalpa in Honduras beats it...and the "beat" goes on. You had some pithy questions for me...here is one for you, "How do you ever expect there to be a reasonable solution to the crime problem in BA, if folks won't even look at the reality of the available crime data?"

 

[Iznogud]

Your erudition brings only sillyness to this pointless discussion. I just wanted you to take a closer look of your stats and honestly tell me if you think they're worth the paper they get printed on. Your reply tells me you're not capable of it. So be it then.

People tell you not to bother reporting. You know responsible people that do. My heart feels so warm and fuzzy to read this, it almost makes me want to believe.
I never said cops in BA. I happen to know cops all over the country (different forces and provinces) and what I stated is common knowledge (sorry if not part of a manual) and also SOP.
Also had a friend in the statistics department of the Federal Judicial system tell me how the input was BS and then the figures got converted to whatever was the results they wanted or could live with.
Methinks my personal sources are kind of more close and trustworthy that your precious figures. Come to think of it, they're the ones who produce yours somewhere down the line. But you might find 200 voices to say the opposite. Ain't that marvelous?
My sources are not only different but also include the Executive and Judicial Powers. You want to believe what they say as long as you do not have to take a closer look into the way they make their numbers...


Ignorance is a blizz, but you can't beat it when it's backed up by stats.

Live long and prosper (in a statistically documented safe and happy way).
Just make sure you don't get sand in your ear canals.

PS: GF got mugged last night, here in Caballito. My kids almost got mugged last week. Same 2 block radius. Where are the statistics to protect us when we need them?