Renters visa vs. Tourists visa

Gates

Registered
I've been going through these forums for about a week now, and haven't been able to find something addressing this issue outright. Apologies if this is redundant...

I am moving to Buenos Aires in the upcoming months. I have never been there, but have some friends there, and feel sufficiently knowledgeable about what life's like there, so I'm not so much interested in more of the "try it out before you move" discussion.

What I do want to know is what, specifically, are the benefits of having a renters visa vs. that of the tourist visa, other than the required 90 day trip to Colonia? I figured I would just get the renters visa because I meet the minimum income standards, and wanted to avoid a trip every 90 days (I plan on staying for at least a year), but seeing as how it is $400 just to apply, it caused me to question my knowledge of why it would be good to have it.

Can anyone shed some light on this for me?
 

EMR

Registered
Gates,

The residency issue is a funny one because people have different takes. Once you get a DNI for example you can do things that you cannot do w/o it such as get cell phone plans, cheaper airfares and other things. There are advantages on many ways, there can also be some disadvantages. I suggest you visit with an immigration lawyer for a consult so that he can answer any and all questions and fill you in on the process etc. I would not attempt to do this alone. My lawyer is great and works for many fortune 500 companies and is reasonable on his charges. His name is Jorge Ruffa ruffaimt@hotmail.com , also, it is not just as easy as showing up an applying, you would need several items before you arrive in BA and several after. You would need to take with you
1. Certified copy of birth certificate with an apostille from the state of birth
2. Same for marriage certificate if applicable
3. FBI criminal background check via fingerprints (have to take wth you from here)
4. A letter from your financial advisor or investment company, pension etc showing the income of at least 2500 pesos a month for duration of your stay, (Jorge would get you a template letter that works so they could follow that, it has to be notarized and also apositlle.

Once you get to BA, there would need to be some things requested from the American Consul, some translations etc and it is about a 3 month process for residency and then a little longer for DNI

This is a rough outline but I would go with a pro to make sure it is ok,

I get the no need to try before you go for it thing but it would not hurt to tke everyting with you and then explore the options once there. You could decide if you do it or not.

There are pro's and con's but I think if you talk to a pro, you can decide what is right for you.
 

steveinbsas

Registered
The FBI report will probably take more time than any of the other documents. Last I heard, once the documents are submitted the visa is granted in less than three weeks. It is necessary to have the visa before applying for the DNI.

Does anyone know if the registro is even accepting applications from foreigners for the DNI at this time? Some members of this forum have recently posted they weren't, while others plugging immigration attorneys continue to claim it can all be done quickly at a price (many times more than the fees charges by migraciones).

I'm sorry if I sound cynical, but I think if you talk to a pro you will be told you should have the visa and the DNI and you should pay them to do it all for you.

PS: you don't have to go to Colonia after 90 days. You can get a 90 day extension of the tourist visa at migraciones.

You can prepare the paperwork before you come. It isn't very expensive if you do it yourself, including getting the Apostille for the doccuments. Once you are here you will then be able to apply for residency yourself.

No agency or attorney can make the decision whether you want to live here or not.

It's all up to you.


Keep in mind that if you do the paperwork before you come, some of the docs (the FBI report and financial documents for example) are only acceptable at migraciones for six months. After that time you would need updated ones with the seal of the Apostille as well.

Since you have never been here before, I strongly suggest you come on a tourist visa and act just like a tourist for the first three months. Then, if you want, you can apply for temporary residency.
 

elhombresinnombre

Registered
These friends you have in Bs As - what do they advise? A tourist visa is just that: a visa for tourists. The fact that today you might be able to overstay your tourist visa and pay a fine on exit or can cross a national border to return with a new tourist entry stamp is down to goodwill - no more, no less. The authorities could change the regulations overnight or start enforcing the ones they already have.
 

EMR

Registered
Yes you can get the docs in the USA by yourself and it is easy to get them notarized and apositlled, however, I am of the belief that when you go to a new country, it sometime spays to have a professional do the work so you are assured it is done right. People can do many things by themselves and it is a personal choice, but I use professionals when I feel it is in my best interest. It all depends on whether or not you want to spend the money and your own situation.
I am not pushing a lawyer and one can find a hundred lawyers, this one came highly recommended and has been excellent. His client list says it all. Again, there are many ways to skin a cat, I am one that like to use pro's and have it done versus get frustrated with the process and waste my time doing that work.

Some people make those decisions based on money being spent, well there again people have different opinions and different financial resources.

I say you are better off getting the docs you need, taking them and I would talk to a Pro, you do not have to hire him/her but what does a consult costs? Nothing and it would give you piece of mind.

It also depends on Gates' Spanish abilities etc. I am sure he is a smart guy and will figure it out.

And why is it bad or wrong to pay someone for their professional help? I mean that is what they do and they know the system. I guess you could research an illness on WEB MD and try to operate on yourself also but some people actually believe that professional services are worth their value.

I have had experience in many countries doing many things, and sometimes it is cheaper in the long run to have someone that is local and is a professional do the work instead of trying to save a buck and screwing it up.

Not all people have Steve's talent or pension for dealing with the red tape
 

steveinbsas

Registered
How happy Gates will be in Argentina really depends on his "Spanish" abilities, even if he does pay for professional help getting the visa and the DNI.

I daresay if you can do it yourself here you will be a lot happier...

And get ripped off a lot less.

"Smart guys" usually don't make the decision to live here without ever having visited (in spite of what their "friend" have told them).

Though quite a few who have posted in this forum seem to have done just that.

Most of them have come...and gone.
 

EMR

Registered
I will make this observation, there are many good posts here on this board but there are also many people that posts about so many negative things that happen to them, or they think will happen etc. I think anyone could be ripped off anywhere but the assumption or statement that you WILL get ripped off by someone in Argentina is just ridiculous. I am sure it has happened but if people do the proper research and due diligence, they will be fine. I mean the statement by Steve that you will be ripped off a lot less just bothers me because you are generalizing that everyone in Argentina is a crook and that Expats get ripped off all the time.

Then if it is such a bad culture, why be there?

I will agree with Steve's last statement, you should go for the 3 month period or so and see if you like it and then decide what to do. That is why I say take the docs you need from the states and have them but do not do anything until you have had the experience. That is a wise statement
 

steveinbsas

Registered
EMR said:
the assumption or statement that you WILL get ripped off by someone in Argentina is just ridiculous.
I'm sorry, but that is an incredibly naive statement. Just how much time have you spent in Argentina?

EMR said:
Then if it is such a bad culture, why be there?
I love living in Argentina, but it is indeed a culture full of fraud and deceit. Knowing that makes it more possible to avoid it. I do business with a few honest and reputable individuals here, but they are indeed the exception to the rule.


EMR said:
And why is it bad or wrong to pay someone for their professional help? I mean that is what they do and they know the system. I guess you could research an illness on WEB MD and try to operate on yourself also but some people actually believe that professional services are worth their value.

Just so you know, I "hired" an Argentine attorney to "get" my residency visa.

All I got (through him) were the translations of my documents. He was no help opening a bank acccount and wanted me to transfer the funds to buy my apartment into his account! He also advised me to put the apartment in my Argentine girlfriend's name (they were working together).

I ended up going to migraciones with my new girlfriend (from Uruguay) and getting the visa myself.

Then I got the DNI at the registro civil alone and before I could speak more than a couple sentences in Spanish.
 

EMR

Registered
Well Steve, it seems you had some bad experiences but that does not mean everyone has or will. I have spent more than 10 years doing business in Argentina and have not had issues. ON the contrary, compared to places like Mexico, Russia, Panama and other places, I have found Argentines to be very decent and educated people. You got a bad lawyer, so what, they have those everywhere, I am from the USA and love my country but let's face it, Madoff, Stanford, and tons of others, the banks, mortgage companies, etc , yes real honest here in the USA right? Well right, in the US most people are honest and hard working and decent although there are a few crooks, Madoff, largest in history, does that mean that the people that lost money with Madoff should tell everyone never to do business in the USA and that it is a culture of deceit and fraud?
I mean you had a bad experience and I am sorry for that but as I said, not everyone does and making genralizations is just not fair.
People have bad experiences everywhere. For example, I hate American Airlines, the 5 times I have flown them I have been delayed, cancelled or had generally a bad experience. I am platinum with Delta, I love them. My friend who has flown Delta a few times hates them and he loves American, go figure but the point is that I do not think it is fair to make generalizations, you certainly can say what your experience was and what the name of that lawyer was so people avoided them but in fairness you cannot project that experience onto everything.

And I will not get into details here but I have done significant businss in Argentina for years for both my former employer which is one of the largest financial companies in the world and for myself. I would be certain far more than you in term of both scope and dollar amounts and I have been fine. It is a different culture than America and it can be a bit slow and frustrating at times but I have not found most people to be fraudulant.
So, let' agree to disagree and allow people to make their own minds up.

My experience has been quite different than yours with both normal people and professionals. I wonder if my saying of pennywise dollar foolish fits here, I wonder if you chose some cheap small time lawyer because you did not want to pay and that is why you got such a bad guy or if you went with ARCA or one of those jokes of a firm.

Anyway, I am not trying to attack you and I sympathize with your bad experience but it really is not fair to say because you had that bad experience that everything is bad.
 

steveinbsas

Registered
EMR said:
Well Steve, it seems you had some bad experiences but that does not mean everyone has or will. I have spent more than 10 years doing business in Argentina and have not had issues. ON the contrary, compared to places like Mexico, Russia, Panama and other places, I have found Argentines to be very decent and educated people. You got a bad lawyer, so what, they have those everywhere, I am from the USA and love my country but let's face it, Madoff, Stanford, and tons of others, the banks, mortgage companies, etc , yes real honest here in the USA right? Well right, in the US most people are honest and hard working and decent although there are a few crooks, Madoff, largest in history, does that mean that the people that lost money with Madoff should tell everyone never to do business in the USA and that it is a culture of deceit and fraud?
I mean you had a bad experience and I am sorry for that but as I said, not everyone does and making genralizations is just not fair.
People have bad experiences everywhere. For example, I hate American Airlines, the 5 times I have flown them I have been delayed, cancelled or had generally a bad experience. I am platinum with Delta, I love them. My friend who has flown Delta a few times hates them and he loves American, go figure but the point is that I do not think it is fair to make generalizations, you certainly can say what your experience was and what the name of that lawyer was so people avoided them but in fairness you cannot project that experience onto everything.

And I will not get into details here but I have done significant businss in Argentina for years for both my former employer which is one of the largest financial companies in the world and for myself. I would be certain far more than you in term of both scope and dollar amounts and I have been fine. It is a different culture than America and it can be a bit slow and frustrating at times but I have not found most people to be fraudulant.
So, let' agree to disagree and allow people to make their own minds up.

My experience has been quite different than yours with both normal people and professionals. I wonder if my saying of pennywise dollar foolish fits here, I wonder if you chose some cheap small time lawyer because you did not want to pay and that is why you got such a bad guy or if you went with ARCA or one of those jokes of a firm.

Anyway, I am not trying to attack you and I sympathize with your bad experience but it really is not fair to say because you had that bad experience that everything is bad.
You can say you are not "attacking" me, but I consider the following presumptuous and condescending:

"I wonder if you chose some cheap small time lawyer because you did not want to pay and that is why you got such a bad guy or if you went with ARCA or one of those jokes of a firm."

I never said everything here is bad. I suggest that you read more of my posts before you try to lecture me.

For such a smart guy you spell rather poorly...including the words business and fraudulent, as well as generalizations and canceled.

You might have an MBA for all I know, but perhaps you should get a refund from the English teachers that failed to teach you how to spell the big words correctly.

Perhaps the failure wasn't theirs.
 
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