Return To Ba/still Worthwhile?

[Somewhereinba]

Argentina has definitely lost its lust... Most gringos still here are because of a relationship. Such a shame but the country is a result of its people...

 

[Ries]

this is a completely personal decison.
I am a gringo, I live in BA part time because I love it. I dont find it more expensive than the pacific northwest, where I live the rest of the time- with 2 important caveats-
1- I own my apartment in BA- hence, I avoid a lot of hassles.
2- I live in a VERY expensive part of the USA- rents in Seattle are far higher than BA, for example- my kid has been paying $1100 a month for a one room apartment, with a kitchenette in the corner, in a crummy building with one window that looks out on the garbage cans. Average for a nice tiny room in Seattle is more like $1500-$2000.
So, for me, if you remove rent, (which I have, by buying in 2007) my overall monthly cost in Buenos Aires is lower than in the USA.
Utilities are far less, and equivalent apples for apples food is cheaper- I buy organic and small producer in the USA, and my organic eggs are cheaper in Barrio Norte.

But, really- it depends if you WANT to live in BA or not. If you do, you will find a place. you will figure out a phone plan. and you will find what you need to buy.

Most of the expats I know in BA are not there for a relationship, but because they like the city- but they are older, and mostly have already existing long term relationships. I know a bunch of expat couples who moved part or full time to BA.
I, personally, find Seattle much more boring.

 

[MikeB12]

Besides being much more expensive than it used to be, what's much worse here now? Maybe I'm not as perceptive as the rest of you.

 

[Churchill]

Taking finances out of the equation, Argentina may not be much better but its certainly no worse.

 

[Ries]

A few things I think are better now than ten years ago-
the art scene- many more galleries, interesting young artists, a very active ArteBa and even a competing satellite show, along with lots of performance art as well.
the music scene- more venues, more bands, more variety. More argentine artists making great unique music that is being received and acclaimed worldwide- argentine musicians I know are currently on tour in the USA, asia, and europe, and this is a common, yearly thing, for them to tour, play, and sell music worldwide
the fashion scene- again, many more great young designers.
the food- I find the choices of foodstuffs to buy, in terms of both quality and selection, far better than 2007. organic, artesenal, and handmade products are all over these days, and ingredients for all kinds of things are available now that werent before.
and the restaurants are waay better. of course, many of the classics remain, but there are dozens and dozens of really good places that simply could not have existed in 2007. Vietnamese, mexican, gourmet- its incredible whats out there. I have friends from the USA visit every year, and rave about places like proper or gran dabang, which are as good as anything in the USA, at a fraction of the price.
the beer- explosion in craft beer, and lots of em are very good. I have several choices where to fill my growlers within walking distance, with 2 or 3 dozen choices total in ten minutes walk.

sube cards- they have changed my life, thats for sure. I used to spend every monetary transaction gaming how to get moneda. Now, I dont worry at all, no more big bowl of coins by the front door.

ecobici- i ride em, for free, 4 or 5 stations within a few blocks.

yes, inflation has been a constant heavy presence, but its still worth it to me.

 

[garryl]

this is a completely personal decison.
I am a gringo, I live in BA part time because I love it. I dont find it more expensive than the pacific northwest, where I live the rest of the time- with 2 important caveats-
1- I own my apartment in BA- hence, I avoid a lot of hassles.
2- I live in a VERY expensive part of the USA- rents in Seattle are far higher than BA, for example- my kid has been paying $1100 a month for a one room apartment, with a kitchenette in the corner, in a crummy building with one window that looks out on the garbage cans. Average for a nice tiny room in Seattle is more like $1500-$2000.
So, for me, if you remove rent, (which I have, by buying in 2007) my overall monthly cost in Buenos Aires is lower than in the USA.
Utilities are far less, and equivalent apples for apples food is cheaper- I buy organic and small producer in the USA, and my organic eggs are cheaper in Barrio Norte.

But, really- it depends if you WANT to live in BA or not. If you do, you will find a place. you will figure out a phone plan. and you will find what you need to buy.

Most of the expats I know in BA are not there for a relationship, but because they like the city- but they are older, and mostly have already existing long term relationships. I know a bunch of expat couples who moved part or full time to BA.
I, personally, find Seattle much more boring.

Avoid many problems by owning? my cost to keep the apartment is $900 dollars/month considering the expense, taxes and paying someone to pay the bills for me. It constantly needs repairs and I have hard time to get repair people to show up. Massive gringos who do not have relationship here are gone. The ones still here are hardcore BA lovers.

 

[Ceviche]

The ones still here are hardcore BA lovers.

But Palermo is full of American tourists.

 

[Ries]

Avoid many problems by owning? my cost to keep the apartment is $900 dollars/month considering the expense, taxes and paying someone to pay the bills for me. It constantly needs repairs and I have hard time to get repair people to show up. Massive gringos who do not have relationship here are gone. The ones still here are hardcore BA lovers.

the problems I refer to are landlords who do nothing, getting guarantees from argentines who own apartments, paying short term high rents because you are not a citizen, and so on.
My apartment, of course, has expensas, like every apartment in the city. But I live in a building with only 5 units, so our consorcia is pretty small and easy to deal with. We have some building repairs, which we have to pay, but i tend to do most small repairs myself- plumbing, electrical, and so on. And my expensas are far from $900 a month. as in, less.
I also managed to get a bank account, ten years ago, so I can pay my own bills online.
Again, my real estate taxes in Argentina are a fraction of similar taxes in the USA- property taxes on an apartment the size of mine if it was located in Seattle, (where it would be worth a half million to 1 million dollars) would be a minimum of 6 grand a year, USD. My argentine taxes are a small fraction of that.
Expenses on a condo in downtown seattle, which cost, say $500 k US, would run at least $500 a month, probably closer to $1000, in addition to the real estate taxes, mortgage payments, and insurance.
Which means that, compared to a similar cost apartment, I save at least ten thousand dollars a year for BA versus Seattle. Of course, prices are generally higher in NYC or San Francisco, so you would save even more.

I know, if I lived in Bumfu*k, Texas, it would be cheaper- but I dont, and I wont. Compared to a major city in the USA, with comparable culture, restaurants, public transit, parks, and so on, Buenos Aires is much cheaper for how I live. Your mileage will of course vary, which is my main point
Everybody is different- but the monthly costs of owning an apartment in Buenos Aires are much cheaper for me than owning an apartment I would live in, in most US cities.

I would completely agree- the expats still here mostly are here cause they like it, not cause its cheap.
I have never lived places just because they are cheap- and wont.
I was never friends with the floaters who were here for a year or two cause it was cheap, and who then moved on- they are just not particulary interesting to me- my friends in BA are people who work hard, do interesting and unique things, and want to be here, whether they are expats or locals. I have been to "cheap" places, like Sayulita, or Phuket or Kuta- and found them soul-less and boring.

 

[Girino]

I haven't been here long enough to make a comparison between BA when you were last here and now, but my general feeling is that a lot of US expats who moved here came only because of the low cost of living, didn't make an effort to integrate in the local community and remained confined in their English-speaking expat bubble. They surrounded themselves with people working for them: facilitator for trámites, cleaning ladies to clean and cook, restaurant to eat out, laundry services with delivery, etc.
When the exchange rate decreased and then stalled at 15, these people started experiencing inflation for the first time and the many expenses they had added up. I.e. they were living above their means, but the favorable exchange rate made it bearable for several years in a row.

Honestly, where people can live so lavingshly with so little money, there is a great unbalance, whether economical or social. Being money and weather the only two reasons why they came here, as soon as they lost their buying power they started experiencing discomforts in their life and fled. They lived in a bubble and now that their bubble has shrunk they feel like suffocating.

I like Ries' post and I agree with him. Pick Buenos Aires for being Buenos Aires and not for the kind of life style you could afford here - Argentina's economy has been a roller coaster for 60 years and it was unlikely to remain 'a daydream' forever. There are certainly cheaper and more modern places in the world, if the math is what governs your reasoning.

 

[John Doe]

The last 2 times that I flew to EZE from the U.S. were in April and on 18 July. Both flights had about 7 U.S. passport holders. Everyone else was Argentine. If th U.S. Consulate didn't visas to Argentines, the flights would be almost empty.
I wonder how much the airlines are paying the consulate to issue visas?
Seems scandalous