Should we Brits be keeping a low profile?

[Markgeezer]

Since when to the UK?

Amargo...... some answers to your solutions

>>> My solution: UK and Argentina sign a treaty, Argentina accepts never to use force again against the Islands, UK closes that ugly garrison and sends the Prince back home, every Malvinense has the right for permanent Argentine residence/citizenship (for easiness of travel to the continent, using Argentine universities, hospitals, etc),

Any Malvinense already has automatic right to Argentine citizenship, because according to Argentina they were born in Argentina. Their ease of travel to and from the continent does not depend upon their passport status but rather the temporary imposition of Argentina granting flights over its airspace by a Chilean carrier. There is a better hospital in Port Stanley than in Rio Gallegos, and no Malvinense is interested in coming here, so both are moot points. In sum, your first solution is no different from the current situation.

>>> Argentines are allowed to travel to the Islands without hassle (less hassle than to the UK), flights and ferry services from Argentina to the Islands, review of that unfair exclusion zone around the Islands, revenues from oil and what little fish is left to be shared 50% among the Islands and Argentina. And peace forever.

Argentines have virtually not been restricted to travel to the islands barring a few years after 1982, the fact is that very few, other than relatives of victims of the war, have gone to visit the islands. Just as the British were the first to occupy Patagonia as a new home (before the so-called Argentines), they also did so in the islands and there has been a long history of British sheep industry between the Falklands and Santa Cruz. A ferry service would be great but I doubt that it would be rentable right now. There is no exclusion zone to tourists, and there are no visa requirements for Argentines visiting the UK so what are you talking about. As previously stated Argentina decided that it did not want 50% of oil and fishing revenues, refer to previous posts. In sum, your second solution was already rejected by the Argentina governement, or more specifically by Cristina Fernandez de Kirschner.

Amargo, you have made it quite obvious that you know nothing about the history of the islands or Argentina.

If you are an Argentine posting on this site then we are not interested in your misguided opinion.

 

[dennisr]

http://en.mercopress.com/2012/02/25/falklands-malvinas-an-open-letter-to-sean-penn

 

[scotttswan]

Since when to the UK?

From English-Wikipedia (which is, of course, not completely 'neutral' and favours the British claims):

Controversy exists over the Falklands' original discovery and subsequent colonisation by Europeans. At various times there have been French, British, Spanish, and Argentine settlements.

Upon withdrawal the British left behind a plaque asserting her continued claim. Spain maintained its governor until 1806 who, on his departure, left behind a plaque asserting Spanish claims.

In 1820, storm damage forced the privateer Heroína to take shelter in the islands.[22] Her captain David Jewett raised the flag of the United Provinces of the River Plate and read a proclamation claiming the islands.

With right to do so as the Provincias Unidas claimed independence from Spain, which had asserted its claims on the Islands.

The rest is well known: 1833 the British came back and sent the Argentine population and authorities home by means of force. They resettled the Islands with British subjects.

Spain left well before the UK did and in 1833 the British didn't send the "Argentine" population away, infact they encouraged them to stay under Matthew Brisbane who was Vernett's deputy.

From my neutral point of view, Argentina and the UK have about the same rights: the current status is well known, but if one looks at history it is a discussion without a clear winner.

My solution: UK and Argentina sign a treaty, Argentina accepts never to use force again against the Islands, UK closes that ugly garrison and sends the Prince back home, every Malvinense has the right for permanent Argentine residence/citizenship (for easiness of travel to the continent, using Argentine universities, hospitals, etc), Argentines are allowed to travel to the Islands without hassle (less hassle than to the UK), flights and ferry services from Argentina to the Islands, review of that unfair exclusion zone around the Islands, revenues from oil and what little fish is left to be shared 50% among the Islands and Argentina. And peace forever.

You can't force the citizens to give up their rights to the islands and the UK cannot give them away.

I'm sure if Argentina wasn't constantly demanding them back they would happily join mercorsur as a separate state but i doubt you could convince them to give up their fishing rights after Argentina has

Withdrawn from cooperation on the South Atlantic Fisheries Commission and extended its fishing seasons in Argentine waters, thus endangering the long-term sustainable management of straddling fish stocks in the South Atlantic, in contravention of article 63 of the Convention on the Law of the Sea

 

[Amargo]

Argentines have virtually not been restricted to travel to the islands barring a few years after 1982, the fact is that very few, other than relatives of victims of the war, have gone to visit the islands. Just as the British were the first to occupy Patagonia as a new home (before the so-called Argentines), they also did so in the islands and there has been a long history of British sheep industry between the Falklands and Santa Cruz. A ferry service would be great but I doubt that it would be rentable right now. There is no exclusion zone to tourists, and there are no visa requirements for Argentines visiting the UK so what are you talking about. As previously stated Argentina decided that it did not want 50% of oil and fishing revenues, refer to previous posts. In sum, your second solution was already rejected by the Argentina governement, or more specifically by Cristina Fernandez de Kirschner.

Amargo, you have made it quite obvious that you know nothing about the history of the islands or Argentina.

If you are an Argentine posting on this site then we are not interested in your misguided opinion.

First, even if I was Argentine, I think my opinion is as valid as yours, this is called freedom of thought/speech or whatever. And yes, even Argentines have this right.

Second: on paper Argentine don need a visa for visiting the UK, but in reality entering into the UK is not so straightforward: there have been a lot of cases of Argentines being denied entry because they -supposedly- could not produce enough evidence they were going to leave the country again. My advice to you would be to read other newspapers than Buenos Aires Herald.

Third: it is not sure who discovered and claimed the Islands first. The French were the first to settle on the islands.

Fourth: for every arguments at least two parties are needed. I do not believe - in spite of what our Western propaganda says - that Argentina is solely to blame for the conflict. That is why I think a solution as the one I described above could work, but that would mean both parties need to make concessions.
I didn't say the inhabitants of the Islands should be made Argentines or that Argentina should get the sovereignity. The sovereignity status should be kept as it is now, with Argentina resufing for good to attack the Islands and the UK dismantling the military base there. The exclusion zone is indeed still in place, which is a shame. This would need to be revised. The people from the islands should be entitled to get residence permits in Argentina without hassle (in order to allow them to visit schools, universities, hospitals, buying eggs, or whatever). Argentine should be able to visit the Islands too. Share 50% of oil and fish revenues.
And that's it.

 

[jp]

The people from the islands should be entitled to get residence permits in Argentina without hassle (in order to allow them to visit schools, universities, hospitals, buying eggs, or whatever). Argentine should be able to visit the Islands too. Share 50% of oil and fish revenues.
And that's it.

So basically, what you're proposing is that the situation returns to how it was in the 90s, when bi-lateral agreements covering pretty much everything listed above were in place.

The reason these treaties are no longer in effect, is because the current administration unilaterally withdrew from all of them. It chose theatrical posturing and sabre rattling over a sensible, achievable negotiation. No surprises there.

 

[Amargo]

So basically, what you're proposing is that the situation returns to how it was in the 90s, when bi-lateral agreements covering pretty much everything listed above were in place.

The reason these treaties are no longer in effect, is because the current administration unilaterally withdrew from all of them. It chose theatrical posturing and sabre rattling over a sensible, achievable negotiation. No surprises there.

Well, the exclusion zone was there, the military was there too. One cannot preach peace with arms (see Irak, Afghanistan, etc). There is no point in keeping the army there, as everyone knows Argentina would need to take one of the weekly LAN flights to bring its soldiers to the islands.
Moreover, the sabre rattling is coming from both sides.
The key for solving the issue is that BOTH parties admit they are being stupid and that BOTH contribute with something to the solution.

As a side note, according to this article Roger Waters also believes the Malvinas are Argentine.

I do not know whom the Islands should belong to, but it is clear to me that none of the parties have 100% convincing arguments, for most supporters (it does not matter if in the UK or in Argentina) it is either interpretation or belief.

 

[Santiago F]

There is a better hospital in Port Stanley than in Rio Gallegos, and no Malvinense is interested in coming here, so both are moot points.

I just came here for this. Where did you get the evidence to say that Rio Gallegos' hospital is not as good as Port Stanley's?
Have you been to both? I'm not stating that the one in RG is better, but I just say that I always read that Hospital Regional de Río Gallegos is regarded as one of the best in the country. Maybe I'm wrong, but still I get the impression that your statement as to the hospitals is just based on prejudice.

 

[Markgeezer]

First, even if I was Argentine, I think my opinion is as valid as yours, this is called freedom of thought/speech or whatever. And yes, even Argentines have this right.

Agreed


>>>>Second: on paper Argentine don need a visa for visiting the UK, but in reality entering into the UK is not so straightforward: there have been a lot of cases of Argentines being denied entry because they -supposedly- could not produce enough evidence they were going to leave the country again. My advice to you would be to read other newspapers than Buenos Aires Herald.

I don't read the Bs As Herald. I have only heard about Spain refusing entry and locking people up for a while before deporting them. Never heard of any Argentines refused entry to the UK or the Falklands. Name some then why don't you.

>>>>Third: it is not sure who discovered and claimed the Islands first.
Agreed, the British 1690 discovery claim is well known. The Portuguese one is not well known and poorly documented.

>>>>>The French were the first to settle on the islands.

Agreed, but they sold their port to Spain. Anyway.... so what.

>>>>Fourth: for every arguments at least two parties are needed. I do not believe - in spite of what our Western propaganda says - that Argentina is solely to blame for the conflict. That is why I think a solution as the one I described above could work, but that would mean both parties need to make concessions.

If you had read all the thread, you would know that Cristina did a U-turn on much of what you are saying.

>>>> I didn't say the inhabitants of the Islands should be made Argentines or that Argentina should get the sovereignity. The sovereignity status should be kept as it is now, with Argentina resufing for good to attack the Islands and the UK dismantling the military base there. The exclusion zone is indeed still in place, which is a shame. This would need to be revised. The people from the islands should be entitled to get residence permits in Argentina without hassle (in order to allow them to visit schools, universities, hospitals, buying eggs, or whatever). Argentine should be able to visit the Islands too. Share 50% of oil and fish revenues.
And that's it.

Check the other posts, the Falkland islanders don't want to come to Argentina, and don't need to. They hate everything about Argentina, and you can't blame them can you.

 

[Markgeezer]

Santiago,

Sorry it was just a figure of speech, the HR has more specialists and is extremely well equiped. Extreme casualties have to be flown to Uruguay or Chile.

 

[Amargo]

Check the other posts, the Falkland islanders don't want to come to Argentina, and don't need to. They hate everything about Argentina, and you can't blame them can you.

They don't have to come, but what I said is they should have the right to do so. One of the reasons they hate Argentina is because they keep reading too much The Sun Seriously, if they had the chance of visiting Argentina for things they usually have to care of in the UK, I am quite sure they would.