Some Rental Questions

IamRoca

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I am planning on semi-retiring to Argentina. I love the country and if you are not required to work and manage daily household , I think its one of the best places. I like BA but would also want to rent in other parts. My view would be to do a BA / Salta and Cachi/ and Bariloche circuit depending on the time of the year. I hate the heat and love the Andes, but also enjoy the city life. Most likely I will get Paraguay citizenship rather than try to deal with Argentina now -- maybe someday if it stablizes with less government. Something I don't count on.

My questions:
1. ZonaProp is good for BA, but what about the other 2 regions for searching ? Is it better to get an agent ?
2. Is it possible to rent fully in Pesos and just pay directly via Western Union to landlord. Is this a typical arrangement ?
3. Is it possible to rent for less than 1-yr, 6 months for example ? I would want fully furnished places. Is that type of leasing available?
4. I see there is all kind of red type by the government. Is it possible to do rentals without having the government involved in any way ? Just private transactions in cash between 2 parties ?

Thanks,
IamRoca
 

Rich One

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The conditions in each area mentioned are quite out of BA. For instance we hear temporary rentals in Bariloche are hard to get , mostly quoted in dollars.

For fully furnished/equipped temporary flats your best bet is Airbnb. Dealing directly with an owner in Spanish, isn't for beginners.
 

Caribbean Cool

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Don't assume anything. Rentals are changing into the dollar market. Few rentals benefit the Blue Peso. Zonaprop implies a substantial upfront fee to the broker handling the property ($1000 a month apartment could be a fee of $2000 (I think?) plus first and deposit). The broker's fee is computed as monthly but paid in advance for the year. Some owners have the mentality of contracts that have been used for years...good luck with that. The more complicated the payment method you envision the less likely you will find it. That said, nothing is impossible. Airbnb is probably your starting point. And you had better speak Spanish. (few people here have a U.S. bank account)
 

IamRoca

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Thanks for the suggestions. Yes I had 3 years of Spanish in HS and will be taking 3 month course to start. Do you know if there are other sites than AirBnb for rentals in Salta and the Bariloche/San Martin area. It seems there is no good aggregated site ?
Thanks.
 

Rich One

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Thanks for the suggestions. Yes I had 3 years of Spanish in HS and will be taking 3 month course to start. Do you know if there are other sites than AirBnb for rentals in Salta and the Bariloche/San Martin area. It seems there is no good aggregated site ?
Thanks.

Other than Airbnb , you may have local referrals, if you have local contacts ? Airbnb offers the best deals for temporary rentals , as far as, experience, cancellations, damages, complaints, etc. You may also try Bookings web page.
HS Spanish may not cut it to deal with owners Argentine lunfardo.
 

Quilombo

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1. ZonaProp is good for BA, but what about the other 2 regions for searching ? Is it better to get an agent ?

The other regions you mentioned are tourist areas and almost all listing you'll see are meant to be for daily/weekend rentals (or up to a month) with very few actual long term rentals. An agent would make sense likely for these areas, but for Buenos Aires proper or GBA, I don't recommend it. Also, in the City of Buenos Aires you don't pay a realtor's commission, but in the province this can be passed along to the renter.

2. Is it possible to rent fully in Pesos and just pay directly via Western Union to landlord. Is this a typical arrangement ?

Yes it's possible to fully rent in pesos, but the paying directly via WU is not at all common.

Personally, I found my apartment on ZonaProp and proactively chose to offer to pay in dollars to my landlord for 2 reasons: 1, the dollar, blue/CCL/WU has not kept pace with inflation, meaning it is more expensive to pay in pesos than dollars, and 2, inflation is spiraling out of control and has resulted in the government permitting increases of up to 55% for last year in pesos (i.e if you rented a place for 40K ARS in 2021, your 2022 rent could be ~61K ARS), and god knows what it will be for 2023 with 90%+ inflation.

This is a way for both of you to hedge against inflation/devaluation, and some landlords given their wealth have accounts abroad making it possible to simply transfer it to their PayPal/Wise/ACH account, not having to deal with WU at all.

3. Is it possible to rent for less than 1-yr, 6 months for example ? I would want fully furnished places. Is that type of leasing available?

It is possible to rent short term, and I recommend Mercadolibre for this. It's the temporary rental category and most places are furnished. AirBnb is also an option as well, but is usually more expensive.

4. I see there is all kind of red [tape] by the government. Is it possible to do rentals without having the government involved in any way ? Just private transactions in cash between 2 parties?

Yes, but technically all non-temporary rental contracts must follow the rental law, si o si, and the contract you sign is meaningless if it varies from the law (you can't sign your rights away). This includes terms of 3 years, the landlord declaring the income to AFIP/registering the contract, prohibition on rental contracts in currencies other than the peso, increases that can't exceed the amounts published by the government, etc.

All this being said, the reality is that very few people adhere to this, myself included, especially when renting from the owner (dueño directo). The benefit is that since few, if any landlords follow these rules, your recourse if they chose to not repair something/they try and scam you/they act in bad faith/etc.. is that you can remind them about denouncements to AFIP for unregistered rentals (or actually follow through with it) which often resolves the dispute, and worse case scenario, if you did need to go to court, the rental law is the only thing that matters legally speaking, not what you signed, and it's fairly pro-tenant.

So I digress, most of the time it's just a private transaction in cash between 2 parties, but a small number of people do follow the law, which is rare in Argentina, and most countries when it comes to landlords.
 

Moe

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I am planning on semi-retiring to Argentina. I love the country and if you are not required to work and manage daily household , I think its one of the best places. I like BA but would also want to rent in other parts. My view would be to do a BA / Salta and Cachi/ and Bariloche circuit depending on the time of the year. I hate the heat and love the Andes, but also enjoy the city life. Most likely I will get Paraguay citizenship rather than try to deal with Argentina now -- maybe someday if it stablizes with less government. Something I don't count on.

My questions:
1. ZonaProp is good for BA, but what about the other 2 regions for searching ? Is it better to get an agent ?
2. Is it possible to rent fully in Pesos and just pay directly via Western Union to landlord. Is this a typical arrangement ?
3. Is it possible to rent for less than 1-yr, 6 months for example ? I would want fully furnished places. Is that type of leasing available?
4. I see there is all kind of red type by the government. Is it possible to do rentals without having the government involved in any way ? Just private transactions in cash between 2 parties ?

Thanks,
IamRoca
Do you have Paraguayan relatives?

Obtaining Paraguayan citizenship without them isn't as easy as some hustlers on the internet might lead you to believe. I hope you aren't confusing Paraguayan residence (Easy to obtain) with citizenship (extremely difficult to obtain unless you are a descendant, celebrity or other outlier). If I were you I'd do a lot more research on that part of your plan before anything else.
 

IamRoca

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No I am not planning on Paraguay citizenship just residency so that I can easily go back and forth and no taxes(no local income). I am still trying to find a way to stay in Argentina longer without being subject to Argentine taxes. Its not that I mind paying taxes, but they are punitive to dividend income and long-term cap gain ,15% in the US and none of the income or wealth is generated in Argentina.

Thanks for all for the informative responses.
 

Moe

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Paraguayan 'permanent' residence doesn't give you full mercosur rights in Argentina to live indefinitely. I'd research this part more if I was you from actual expats living in Paraguay on facebook or people you actually know there, not from lawyers and others promoting Paraguayan 'permanent' residency online.
 

IamRoca

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Yes, I understand. It just gives me a place to go to without having to go back to the US. I am still trying to figure the best way to live most in Argentina for the next 5 years without paying Argentina taxes. I could just overstay. Really I want to hide as the Western world implodes. My idea was to stay in a place like Cachi - far away from the world and until then stay temporarily in BA, Bariloche, San Martin, etc.. So many great place in Argentina. Pargauay gives me another option. I can also just buy a little farm in the Chaco in the worst case, but really who wants to live there.

I am not vaccinated because I know it was to implement social control. I did research on all the mrNA and it does more harm than good. You can see the deaths now : https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/me...ritain-is-only-the-tip-of-iceberg/ar-AA10OkMt
This happened for the last 20 years in research, but the pushed this on everyone without any evidence they solved the problems..

I know in Argentina they even passed a law that the could force you to take it. This is why I want to live on the outskirts. From Cachi - you can hide in Andes, go to Chilean desset, Boliva, Peru.. or even back to Paraguay. You also want to be in a place where they have a lot of food or on a farm where you can survive. Look at what they did to SriLanka - just stopped fertilizer and then people had no food so they rioted. They are doing same in Europe and in Canada 30% less fertilizer. The communists(guided by the uber wealthy) always use starvation to impose control. Trotsky himself wrote this in how to impose communism and everyone has followed since. The lockdowns had a similar impact where they tried to kill off the small business owners.

Note I have a son who is great, great grandson of General and President Roca. I did not marry into the family, but she did have him in BA. He has always lived in the US -- so I could always try that route if he wanted to move back to Arg. with me alhtough he is now above 21 in age. I was there recently (july/august) I joked around that I should come back and start the revolution and install a Roca -- but this time kill all the politicans rather than the Indians. I also have a near PhD from Standford in economics and used to teach classes on voluntary social systems. I want to write the anti-communist manifesto while in Salta. Everyone knows that needs to be done to fix the country, but just so many bad actors prevent Argentina to be a great country.

In the turmoil about to hit , I do not want to be subject to the whims of Argentinan politicans in terms of taxes and seizure of assets. So I think my best option is to get Paraguay residency and then just try to live in Argentina as much as I can either legally or not as a wandering tourist, stay out of the system, just get money via WU and do everything in cash.

Thanks again for all your insights.
 
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