Something Old To Further Comment Upon, Now . . . ? ? ?

[AmigoArtistico]

double post
-- deleted --

 

[cafeamericano]

1. The agreement does solve the problem with the holdouts, at least as far as getting Argentina out of default and reopening the credit markets. Effectively, it ends the problem.

2. Griesa's decision not only is enforceable, but it is in force. Argentina is in default and has virtually no access to world credit.

3. I just have to laugh at that one.

4. Without this agreement, the job cuts so far will look like nothing compared to what will have to be done. Taxes are ridiculously high in this country, which is unfair and adds to the problems of inflation and competitivity in world markets, which have been killing the Argentine economy for years now.

5. More ridiculousness.

6. If you want to borrow money, you have to abide by the rules. The rules are there for a reason. The rules are the same for every country. If a person wants to take a loan from the bank, the bank imposes rules and limits. The same principles apply for a country.

7. More taxes? More taxes? More taxes?

8. There is plenty of money out there in the world for investment. The only question is where it will go. If Argentina doesn't fix its problems and play by the same rules as the rest of the world, not much of that money is ever going to come here.

Your answers could not have been more wrong. However, your answers have qualified you for a one-way ticket to Venezuela, where, if you hurry, you may actually find one or two gatos locos who might actually believe them.

In the interests of being open and honest, and for my own edification: Doesn't #1 pertain to the risk of the bond holders who accepted the previous two canjes (with a reduction "quita" of something like 75%) suing the Argentine government in order to get the same deal that the holdouts got (Parri Passu)? From my understanding the law firm that the Argentine government is using has issued an opinion letter that states they do not think this would be held up in courts. From my understanding, while most people don't believe these renewed claims would be held up in court (Most have interpreted Parri Passu to mean that they just have to be willing to negotiate with all bond holders in good faith, not that they have to all receive the same deal/% of their money), but there is now way to know for sure until the lawsuits come. Am I misunderstanding that part?

 

[Bajo_cero2]

1. The agreement does solve the problem with the holdouts, at least as far as getting Argentina out of default and reopening the credit markets. Effectively, it ends the problem.

Well, there is something called "me too".
It is interesting your assert this as soon as at the officialism cannot assert that this agreement and payment is going to finish it instead of opening the gate to the other 85% that accepted the cut made by NK.

2. Griesa's decision not only is enforceable, but it is in force. Argentina is in default and has virtually no access to world credit.

This is more alike a diplomatic sanction that the enforcing we are talking about.
To enforce a Court sentence means to go after the assets of Argentina and to seize them.
Guess what? They failled over and over on this.

3.I just have to laugh at that one..

http://chequeado.com/el-explicador/ila-argentina-se-desendeudo-o-no-durante-el-kirchnerismo/

4. Without this agreement, the job cuts so far will look like nothing compared to what will have to be done. Taxes are ridiculously high in this country, which is unfair and adds to the problems of inflation and competitivity in world markets, which have been killing the Argentine economy for years now.

As far as I know, it is a common MIF requirement to downsize the State. So, seems that this agreement and the new submition to the IMF are going to produce the massive job looses.

The problem with the economy is the debt created by liberal + peronism. I explain: peronism is reactionary to the french revolution because it brought back the society and economy of the Spaniard Absolutism of the XVII century: market control, monopolies, bans to imports, unions, among others.

So, liberalism and absolutism just don't fit. If you apply liberalism in a country with medieval institutions of the absolutism (peronism) then you create a huge external debt like Videla, Menem and now Macri is going to do.

First you have to adjust the country to the National Constitution that is liberal cleaning the Constitution of the 49' of Peron that even abolished is enforced.

This is my work on a dayly basis but focused on citizenship.

 

[AmigoArtistico]

In the interests of being open and honest, and for my own edification: Doesn't #1 pertain to the risk of the bond holders who accepted the previous two canjes (with a reduction "quita" of something like 75%) suing the Argentine government in order to get the same deal that the holdouts got (Parri Passu)? From my understanding the law firm that the Argentine government is using has issued an opinion letter that states they do not think this would be held up in courts. From my understanding, while most people don't believe these renewed claims would be held up in court (Most have interpreted Parri Passu to mean that they just have to be willing to negotiate with all bond holders in good faith, not that they have to all receive the same deal/% of their money), but there is now way to know for sure until the lawsuits come. Am I misunderstanding that part?

The "RUFO" clause (Rights Upon Future Offers -- the right to ask for more money if an improved offer is made to other bondholders -- in this case the holdouts) expired at the end of 2014. See this article from La Nación. http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1756423-manana-vence-la-clausula-rufo-y-el-gobierno-podra-negociar-con-los-fondos-buitre

That doesn't mean that Argentina won't be sued. You know how lawyers are. But it does mean that if they do sue, they have virtually no chance of winning.

 

[AmigoArtistico]

...As far as I know... We all know how far that is.

...I explain... Please don't.

Yes, yes, yes. We know already know everything you're saying.

In the same way we know that the earth is flat, and that the sun revolves around the earth.

Thank you so much for clarifying everything for us. It's a big help.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

That doesn't mean that Argentina won't be sued. You know how lawyers are. But it does mean that if they do sue, they have virtually no chance of winning.

Sure! But this is not math!
The agreement States that Argentina gives up its privileges against confiscations as a sovereign State for sentences enforcing instead of clarifying that there are not going to be accepted any more claims. That is why Griesa asserted that he is not going to enact any seize again Argentina. Right! But he is retiring soon...

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Cafeamericano, the problem is that Griesa changed the legal meanning of pari passu to grand the claim to the vultures. So, after that, whatever can happend because we are not talking about law anymore, this is just power enforcement of Paul Singer.

 

[AmigoArtistico]

Welcome to The Twilight Zone.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Democracy Now? Man, that crowd is to the left of Lenin! Think of them as middle-aged Cámporistas. Nothing to see here, folks!

Wrong analisys. Peronism is to go back to the XVII century before the revolution against the Spaniards. While peronistas doesn't recognize the NC, campiristas does. Do, they are mild Peronistas.

 

[mc kenna]

Cafeamericano, the problem is that Griesa changed the legal meanning of pari passu to grand the claim to the vultures. So, after that, whatever can happend because we are not talking about law anymore, this is just power enforcement of Paul Singer.

Now you are getting the hang of it, laws and lawyers are just an excuse, at the end of the day the powerfull enforce their laws, after all they are the ones making the law, and we think here, we in Argentina will be able to win any case against them being that Argentina defaulted twice and had a pretty shitty attitude towards the creditors......We have to pay up, or they will make us pay up, either way the lesson to be learned here is......... you guessed it right..... don't be in debt! or you will be playing in their field by their rules....