Still Hope For A Better Government, By Robert Cox

[thorsten]

Well, I don't consider myself the Internet police and am also not interested in several topics. So I tend to prefer to discuss topics where I have a solid knowledge and are of interest for me, while I'm quiet on others. I wouldn't consider this a double standard...
And regarding the topic: foreign investments, including those of large multi-national companies, can have advantages and disadvantages. The question is how a country governs these investments in order to maximize the advantages and minimize the disadvantages. It's not that one can invite foreign investments and automatically expect a boosting economy, creation of infrastructure, knowledge transfers, access to better products, etc. But similarly its also not that every foreign investment is bad per se.

 

[Redpossum]

I thank you for that calm and measured response.

We can agree to disagree

 

[ghost]

I finally met Bob Cox in person a couple years ago, and I have even more respect for him than I did just from reading his writings. He is very measured and thoughtful.

Very measured indeed. But his general direction is pretty much on the money. Argentina has slipped across the shaky line of "no return" and will slide deeper into the arms of Argenzuela.

 

[Redpossum]

Very measured indeed. But his general direction is pretty much on the money. Argentina has slipped across the shaky line of "no return" and will slide deeper into the arms of Argenzuela.

"Howard" (a nom de guerre) disagrees with you strongly. He's lived here for 35 years, and has strongly stated his opinion, on several recent coffee chat occasions, that Argentina is in a recovery, and happy days will soon be here again.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

"Howard" (a nom de guerre) disagrees with you strongly. He's lived here for 35 years, and has strongly stated his opinion, on several recent coffee chat occasions, that Argentina is in a recovery, and happy days will soon be here again.

If you're suggesting things are better than in 1979, that' setting the bar about as low as can be.

 

[sleazemerchant]

Very measured indeed. But his general direction is pretty much on the money. Argentina has slipped across the shaky line of "no return" and will slide deeper into the arms of Argenzuela.

Argentina will not decline to a level anywhere even remotely approaching the level that Venezuela currently finds itself. Yes, the Kirchner mafia has done quite a job of fucking up what could have been a period of significant economic progress and consolidation; nevertheless, the pendulum will swing the other way and a far more pragmatic and far less dogmatic regime will take over in 2015. The next president is very likely going to be either Massa, Scioli or Macri and any of those three would be a huge improvement in practical terms and in the eyes of the financial markets. Let's not fool ourselves here: Argentina will never operate on the level of a first world country as its defining characteristics are disorganization and chaos; that being said, a combination of intelligent agricultural policies, Vaca Muerta (and other deposits) coming online, and reasonable monetary/fiscal policy can get the financial situation back to equilibrium within a few years.

 

[ARbound]

If you're suggesting things are better than in 1979, that' setting the bar about as low as can be.

But this is the Argentine bar. I always get told by friends, coworkers, others, etc. that "Well at least it's not
[Insert dictatorship years, hyper inflation years, huge poverty years...]". If that's Argentina's definition of
success then the Patagonian Ice Queen is a national savior and you can start to see why people don't
think things are so bad.

I've started to wonder if Argentina collectively suffers from some form of mental illness, mixtures of
Paranoia (Clarin/USA are trying to ruin the country), Delusions (Inflation is shrinking), Narcissism
(Argentina is comparable to Canada or Australia) Masochism (Peronism is the Past and Future) and
Bi Polar (The economy is fine, there is huge domestic growth! Paris club and IMF help!) all in one
non-racist South American "European" package. If someone demonstrated these behaviors they'd be
force treated/drugged or put in a straitjacket, but since Argentina is a country people kind of just feel
bad for it like the homeless guy who talks to himself on the street: you don't give him money because
you know it enables him.

 

[Redpossum]

But this is the Argentine bar. I always get told by friends, coworkers, others, etc. that "Well at least it's not
[Insert dictatorship years, hyper inflation years, huge poverty years...]". If that's Argentina's definition of
success then the Patagonian Ice Queen is a national savior and you can start to see why people don't
think things are so bad.

I've started to wonder if Argentina collectively suffers from some form of mental illness, mixtures of
Paranoia (Clarin/USA are trying to ruin the country), Delusions (Inflation is shrinking), Narcissism
(Argentina is comparable to Canada or Australia) Masochism (Peronism is the Past and Future) and
Bi Polar (The economy is fine, there is huge domestic growth! Paris club and IMF help!) all in one
non-racist South American "European" package. If someone demonstrated these behaviors they'd be
force treated/drugged or put in a straitjacket, but since Argentina is a country people kind of just feel
bad for it like the homeless guy who talks to himself on the street: you don't give him money because
you know it enables him.

In my opinion, you're being unreasonably negative.

There is ample evidence that Argentina has in fact been deliberately sabotaged by outside forces. Look carefully at how the latest dictatorship came to power. Look carefully at what happened after the war. The fact is, Argentina has oil, and any nation that has oil is a target of sabotage and manipulation. Because a strong and united nation can resist the manipulations of the bankers and the oil mafia, while a weak and divided nation is easily manipulated.

There is a very strong tendency in these forums to blame Argentina alone for her own problems, when those problems are in large part the result of sabotage and manipulation by outside forces, manipulation which is still ongoing.

Think about the way that Obama suddenly decided to support Argentina against the vulture capitalists, in front of the USSC. Then, shortly thereafter, Timerman goes to Israel and humbles himself, even meets with that racist lunatic Avigdor Lieberman. Then yesterday it's announced that Argentina is resuming cooperation with the DEA. You think that wasn't a quid pro quo? This seems even more bitterly unfair when you think about the way in which Argentina was tricked and manipulated into defaulting in the first place, thus creating this club which can be used to beat her endlessly.

 

[internationalguy]

But this is the Argentine bar. I always get told by friends, coworkers, others, etc. that "Well at least it's not
[Insert dictatorship years, hyper inflation years, huge poverty years...]". If that's Argentina's definition of
success then the Patagonian Ice Queen is a national savior and you can start to see why people don't
think things are so bad.

I've started to wonder if Argentina collectively suffers from some form of mental illness, mixtures of
Paranoia (Clarin/USA are trying to ruin the country), Delusions (Inflation is shrinking), Narcissism
(Argentina is comparable to Canada or Australia) Masochism (Peronism is the Past and Future) and
Bi Polar (The economy is fine, there is huge domestic growth! Paris club and IMF help!) all in one
non-racist South American "European" package. If someone demonstrated these behaviors they'd be
force treated/drugged or put in a straitjacket, but since Argentina is a country people kind of just feel
bad for it like the homeless guy who talks to himself on the street: you don't give him money because
you know it enables him.

Argentina in my opinion, at least collectively speaking, is a 5 year old spoiled brat with traces of schizophrenic behavior. Obviously individuals are not all like that but the Argentine society does seem to be like that.

 

[ghost]

In my opinion, you're being unreasonably negative.

There is ample evidence that Argentina has in fact been deliberately sabotaged by outside forces. Look carefully at how the latest dictatorship came to power. Look carefully at what happened after the war. The fact is, Argentina has oil, and any nation that has oil is a target of sabotage and manipulation. Because a strong and united nation can resist the manipulations of the bankers and the oil mafia, while a weak and divided nation is easily manipulated.

There is a very strong tendency in these forums to blame Argentina alone for her own problems, when those problems are in large part the result of sabotage and manipulation by outside forces, manipulation which is still ongoing.

Think about the way that Obama suddenly decided to support Argentina against the vulture capitalists, in front of the USSC. Then, shortly thereafter, Timerman goes to Israel and humbles himself, even meets with that racist lunatic Avigdor Lieberman. Then yesterday it's announced that Argentina is resuming cooperation with the DEA. You think that wasn't a quid pro quo? This seems even more bitterly unfair when you think about the way in which Argentina was tricked and manipulated into defaulting in the first place, thus creating this club which can be used to beat her endlessly.

Obama didn't support Argentina. He supported the ability of other countries to centralize debt in the US and thus allow the slime on Wall St to continue screwing 3rd world debtors.