The Bsas Zoo

[Dada]

What? So much wrong here, I don't know what to ... what?

I am going to ignore the second half of that because it is nonsense. Counter that if you must, but I would prefer leaving comparisons to the slavery of black people out of this conversation.

Regarding the first part. If you were an animal, you would have no choice either way. An animal does not choose when it eats, drinks, where it lives (fur farm, zoo, or jungle) etc. It acts on instinct, always. I could not agree more that all animals should be "free", but as I said in my first post, we are well past that even being a viable argument. When I was in unversity, one of the most common mistakes people made when thinking of animal behaviour was to beleive that their cat was happy, or their dog was sad, or angry, or whatever. None of it is true unless 200 years of modern zoology and the study of animal behaviour is completely wrong. Animals act on instinct, everything it does is a direct reaction to an environmental stimilus, it chooses nothing and does not understand the concept of pain, happiness or whatever... it simply acts.

This transfers into the zoo environment ideally because an animal in captivity, that has always been in captivity, and has generations of its family in captivity has no yearning to be anywhere else. A tiger roams a huge environment not because it is free, but because the territorial nature of the animal dictates that males need to be spread out to avoid constant breeding confrontation and inbreeding and to have a steady supply of food. Given the ideal conditions of care, food, shelter, easy access to a viable mate, and myriad other things, the tiger is instinctly and perfectly functional in a smaller enclosure with twenty people staring at it.

I am not even arguing whether zoos are good or bad. As a concept they are terrible, built originally for people to look at animals that should never have been there in the first place. Humans are absolutley to blame for zoos even exisiting, but unfortunatley they have now become part of maintaining a species, for better of for worse. However, like I said in my first post, whether zoos are good or bad is rather a moot point by now because we keep killing animals that would not otherwise be endangered.

I am not being obtuse either, this is a subject I studied and love, so I am just enjoying having a debate with someone about it. I also do not want to go off subject too much as this is about one particular zoo, one that is indeed doing things very wrongly.

No offense intended, really. We obviously have very different views regarding animals, and we even agree on some points, even though for different reasons.

I have also been subject to long years of education, along the lines of "animals function on instincts" etc. I just don't buy it anymore, like many things we've been tought. Yes, animals act mainly on instincts, so far so good. So do we, humans. Much more than we like to admit. Which is fine, because instincts are right, most of the time. That has nothing to do with emotions, or their alleged absence. Homo sapiens might be the only specie that feels the urge to mentally explain or excuse our instinctive choices. Ok, so we may be more rational than most animals. But emotions are raw and universal, they have more to do with instinct than intelect. We are made from the same matter.

A human being who spent a long time in captivity, or was born into it, also has no option. A broken spirit looks very much the same in a human and in an animal.

Some of my exes might tell you I have no heart, and they would be able to bring enough empiric evidence to back up that statement. I wouldn't mind, because, luckily, that doesn't affect my human rights. At least not in this part of the world. But I will always raise objections when someone uses that sort of argument for any sort of captivity, nothing personal.

As for BsAs Zoo, never been there. I find these places repulsive and simply boycot them. On the other hand, many circuses in Europe only have human acrobats, artists and clowns, no animals

 

[Crema Americana]

I'm not an anti-zoo person, but BA zoo is pretty bad. I went once 10 years ago on my first trip here and was kind of put off by the lack of care of the animals and the state of the enclosures. Especially the elephants. But, a lot of things in Argentina are like that (schools, roads, buildings, etc). I would say the animals are suffering, and they're unhappy as well. Animals survive however they can, but they also know the difference between being comfortable and not (it's a battle I have everyday with my dog and the couch.)

I think zoos have a place in society if the animals are treated well and have plenty of space and things to do. It's a bit like having an indoor cat.... there's no reason for them to have a miserable life if you give them everything they need. They also tend to live longer healthier lives. Nature is cruel. Ideally and humanely, zoos should be a place to house animals where they have a similar life to what they'd experience in their home habitat, without the dangers.

Bringing people closer to animals is educational and may increase appreciation for the importance of animals and habitat conservation. Personally I'd prefer zoos to be more about wildlife rehab and conservation, housing animals that would not be able to survive on their own for whatever reason, while healthy subjects are released if possible.

 

[steveinbsas]

I just read about Macri closing the centro de zooterapia in the Rock Park (when he was mayor?).

http://www.taringa.net/posts/info/14180579/Macri-cerro-un-centro-de-zooterapia-y-dejo-a-500-chicos-si.html

Is the zoo next?